"Forced to Farm"

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The California Coastal Commission is demanding that a family give a public easement restricting the use of their land to farming or grazing in exchange for being allowed to build their home on a part of their land. The Pacific Legal Foundation is trying to help with a Federal law suit. Watch this 2 minute video "Forced to Farm - Another 'Big Government' Horror Story" - Sterling v. California Coastal Commission

[Greggo 0]

The California Coastal Commission is demanding that a family give a public easement restricting the use of their land to farming or grazing in exchange for being allowed to build their home on a part of their land. The Pacific Legal Foundation is trying to help with a Federal law suit. Watch this 2 minute video "Forced to Farm - Another 'Big Government' Horror Story" - Sterling v. California Coastal Commission

Coastal is a bunch of chimps... but sometimes there are ways around them depending on the area where you want to live. We obtained an obscure Coastal Exemption to build. The process took 16 months, but was worth it compared to dealing with simians.

Think Atlas Shrugged...

What is one defining characteristic of a bureaucrat? Avoidance of taking responsibility for making decisions so as not to get blamed. They don't necessarily care what people do just as long as they don't get blamed for letting them do it. That's why the initial stock answer for everything is ~no~. It's also important to understand what questions not to ask, very much like being on trial where you do not want your own testimony to open new areas of discovery.

Look for attrition...

Most bureaucrats have short shelf lives and tend to get shuffled around from department to department. Sometimes the obstacles get removed when they do, and the next one doesn't know what previously transpired. Bureaucrats depend heavily upon your sanction as their victim... so see if you can find ways not to be the one giving them your sanction.

You're dealing with an extremely toxic leftist parasite infested sector full of pencil pushers who produce absolutely nothing... so for your own happiness and wellbeing it's in your best interest to minimise your exposure as much as reasonably possible.

Greg

[Arnold 0]

The California Coastal Commission is demanding that a family give a public easement restricting the use of their land to farming or grazing in exchange for being allowed to build their home on a part of their land. The Pacific Legal Foundation is trying to help with a Federal law suit. Watch this 2 minute video "Forced to Farm - Another 'Big Government' Horror Story" - Sterling v. California Coastal Commission

The arrogance of these bureaucrats is beyond belief. They should be jailed for attempted robbery!

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The California Coastal Commission is well known for being viro tyrants. There are no doubt drones as in any bureaucracy, but the Commission itself is not seeking avoidance of responsibility for decisions, it is run by extreme power seekers and viro control freaks who want to control and restrict everything possible. When you own property in a high target area of one of these agencies, you can't "minimize exposure" because they already have your land in their sites. The best you can do when you have to deal with them is try to seek out and hope for someone working there who is more normal and not an obsessive control freak. Such more normal people do exist inside bureaucracies, and when found can be helpful. But the Pacific Legal Foundation has been in a pitched battle with the California Coastal Commission for decades; the private citizens who need help didn't go looking for trouble, they were found by the bureaucracy because they are perceived as squatting on land (their own private property) the Commission wants to control.

[Greggo 0]

The California Coastal Commission is well known for being viro tyrants. There are no doubt drones as in any bureaucracy, but the Commission itself is not seeking avoidance of responsibility for decisions, it is run by extreme power seekers and viro control freaks who want to control and restrict everything possible. When you own property in a high target area of one of these agencies, you can't "minimize exposure" because they already have your land in their sites. The best you can do when you have to deal with them is try to seek out and hope for someone working there who is more normal and not an obsessive control freak. Such more normal people do exist inside bureaucracies, and when found can be helpful. But the Pacific Legal Foundation has been in a pitched battle with the California Coastal Commission for decades; the private citizens who need help didn't go looking for trouble, they were found by the bureaucracy because they are perceived as squatting on land (their own private property) the Commission wants to control.

Your view from the East Coast will understandably be somewhat different from mine here at Ground Zero and having personally dealt with Coastal.

Greg

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Your view from the East Coast will understandably be somewhat different from mine here at Ground Zero and having personally dealt with Coastal.

I don't know what differences you are referring to, or what being on the east coast has to do with it. I have been familiar with the history of the California Coastal Commission and some of the Pacific Legal Foundation's battles against its antics for decades. The Commission has come up on the Forum before, such as this case concerning friends of Betsy. There are land control bureaucrats like this all over the country and I have had more experience dealing with them at both the state and national levels of government than I ever wanted; the Coastal Commission remains one of the worst nationally as an institution.

[Greggo 0]

Your view from the East Coast will understandably be somewhat different from mine here at Ground Zero and having personally dealt with Coastal.

I don't know what differences you are referring to, or what being on the east coast has to do with it.

I'm not arguing in defense of Coastal... It was on just this one point that my experience was different than yours.

You commented:

There are no doubt drones as in any bureaucracy, but the Commission itself is not seeking avoidance of responsibility for decisions, it is run by extreme power seekers and viro control freaks who want to control and restrict everything possible.

I found something different... I found that if I could gradually push them off of their "script"... they would be unable to make a decision for fear of being blamed for the unintended outcome of acting outside the part in the bureaucracy they are playing.

Naturally the first response is always negative...

...but upon being pressed from outside of what they know what or how to refuse, they became unable to function and passed off the responsibility of making the decision to another bureaucrat out of the fear of their being blamed.

This isn't just an intellectual theory...

I built a carport last year and wanted to use the 7 year old Coastal Exemption I had obtained for building our home.

The first response was negative.. but knowing that the first response is always negative... I simply kept patiently persisting on other grounds that were outside of their script until the person I was dealing with did not know what to do. So the decision was deferred to County Regional Planning... who after the same approach, then passed it off to Building and Safety. Soon each party said that they would agree if someone else granted the approval. I just kept going back making sure that it was to a different person each time, until I eventually found someone who felt remote enough from the original situation not to get blamed. Once that ok was a done deal, I took it to the other bureaucracies as proof that someone else took the responsiblity, and they immediately went along feeling absolved of any blame.

I tell you... I learned so much about the behavior of bureaucrats just by my own experimentation and observation of the results.

In fact, the property we bought was owned by an architect who was turned down for a building permit and dumped the land for next to nothing as being unbuildable. Our Building Permit application was turned down three times over the span ot 2 1/2 years. But I just kept resubmitting it until the person who granted the permission felt safe enough from getting blamed to make the decision.

Bureaucracies are all just a big game of "cover your a**". If a person understands this basic premise... and can be creative, patient, and observant... they can eventually get their way.

Anyways... that's just what my own experience taught me. So I don't tend to see those people as evil and nefarious as someone else whose approach and experience was different.

I also learned another larger basic premise... that others will treat me exactly as decent as I am... and even if they are not as decent as I am... they will treat me as if they were.

And another... never give them the sanction of a victim... because that is indecent and will be exactly matched by the indecency of their response.

So to be treated decently... it was first necessary for me to become the kind of man who deserves to be treated decently... and then I got the decent treatment that I deserved.

Greg

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There are ways to deal with bureaucratic abuse but they're not all the same, they are not interchangeable, and you can't always do it by yourself. The bureaucrats are not all trying to avoid responsibility; individuals and an entire agency can be on a "mission" that is much different to contend with and many decent people have been steamrolled by them. The work done by organizations like PLF is not superfluous or harder than it has to be.

[Greggo 0]

There are ways to deal with bureaucratic abuse but they're not all the same, they are not interchangeable, and you can't always do it by yourself.

That's true...

I'm just describing my own real world experience of doing it myself as a complete novice... and sharing what I learned about government bureaucrats and their conditioned responses. Understanding this conditioning could give a person enough valueable leverage to resolve things without needing to resort to the legal system which is a whole other slithering snakepit... and the last place I'd ever want to end up.

The bureaucrats are not all trying to avoid responsibility; individuals and an entire agency can be on a "mission" that is much different to contend with and many decent people have been steamrolled by them.

...only if they're given the "sanction of the victim"... a very powerful principle from Atlas Shrugged which can be utilized by anyone who understands what it is.

The work done by organizations like PLF is not superfluous or harder than it has to be.

I'm sure they do some good and try to help people.

Do you belong to this legal organization?

Greg

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There are ways to deal with bureaucratic abuse but they're not all the same, they are not interchangeable, and you can't always do it by yourself.

That's true...

I'm just describing my own real world experience of doing it myself as a complete novice... and sharing what I learned about government bureaucrats and their conditioned responses. Understanding this conditioning could give a person enough valueable leverage to resolve things without needing to resort to the legal system which is a whole other slithering snakepit... and the last place I'd ever want to end up.

I'm glad your 16 months of persistence for what should have been a minor issue paid off, and yes it is much better not to have to go into the legal system. When you have to do that it usually means it is too late.

The bureaucrats are not all trying to avoid responsibility; individuals and an entire agency can be on a "mission" that is much different to contend with and many decent people have been steamrolled by them.

...only if they're given the "sanction of the victim"... a very powerful principle from Atlas Shrugged which can be utilized by anyone who understands what it is.

It is a powerful principle, but you have to know how and when to use it. Much of it lies in your own self-confidence that you are right. A bureaucrat on a mission isn't going to back down unless he runs into pressure he cares about, like elected officials with control over his budget. Once he gets the authority for his agenda it is much more difficult to stop it.

The work done by organizations like PLF is not superfluous or harder than it has to be.

I'm sure they do some good and try to help people. Do you belong to this legal organization?

No, but I know someone who does, have consulted with them for help, and have followed some of their cases.

[Greggo 0]

(regarding "the sanction of the victim"...)

It is a powerful principle, but you have to know how and when to use it. Much of it lies in your own self-confidence that you are right...

Yes.

I believe there's a paraphrased Ayn Rand quote:

"You can't rule an innocent man."

Greg