organon

Personal Quotes and Observations

66 posts in this topic

Decent is fitting, as a hand in glove, though the heart hold hate or the mind hold love.

To an altruist an action is decent if it if it dissevers the self.

A rationally heroic man may be rationally decent, but not all decent men are heroes.

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Well, your Viktor Frankle sounds as irrational as you as "race" is a genetic/biological description not a moral description.

Viktor Frankl was a Doctor of Psychiatry who survived Auschwitz.

Greg

So what, I know a lot of Doctor's of Psychiatry that I would not let practice on my dog.

I'm sure there are those who quietly hide Fido when they see you coming, too... lol-1.gif

Although I do not know the work of Viktor Frankl, if you have quoted him in proper context, I doubt I would care to read his works.

That's your free choice, Ray.

This is the context:

"Man's Search for Meaning" (page 138-9)

(emphasis mine)

"Certainly, it was a considerable acheivement for a guard or foreman to be kind to the prisoners in spite of all the camp's influences, and, on the other hand, the baseness of a prisoner who treated his own companions badly was exceptionally contemptable. Obviously the prisoners found the lack of character in such men to be especially upsetting, while they were profoundly moved by the smallest kindness received from any of the guards. I remember how one day a foreman secretly gave me a piece of bread which I knew he must have saved from his breakfast ration. It was far more than the small piece of bread which moved me to tears at that time. It was the human "something" which this man also gave to me-- the word and look which accompanied the gift.

From all this we may learn that there are two races of men in this world, but only those two-- the "race" of the decent man and the "race" of the indecent man. Both are found everywhere; they penetrate into all groups of society. No group consists entirely of decent or indecent people. In this sense, no group is of "pure race"-- and therefore one occasionally found a decent fellow among the camp gaurds.

Life in a concentration camp tore open the human soul and exposed its depths. Is it suprising that in those depths we again found only human qualities which in their very nature were a mixture of good and evil? The rift dividing good from evil, which goes through all human beings, reaches into the lowest depths and becomes apparent even on the bottom of the abyss which is laid open by the concentration camp."

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The bad man who performs some act of alledged "decency" or pity toward his victim is still a bad man. His act is an insult. He does not raise himself up to the innocent level of his victims, does not diminish the fact of his initiation of force against them, but only emphasizes the complete power he has over them. He has made himself anti-human, and so he remains.

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Greg, I still disagree with you and Viktor Frankl.

Ok, Ray.

It'a always good for you to know exactly what you are disagreeing with.

Greg

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Greg, I still disagree with you and Viktor Frankl.

Ok, Ray.

It'a always good for you to know exactly what you are disagreeing with.

Greg

In your post from above you stated "That's your free choice, Ray." And then later you quoted Viktor Frankl as stating "No group consists entirely of decent or indecent people. In this sense, no group is of "pure race"-- and therefore one occasionally found a decent fellow among the camp gaurds." and later "Is it suprising that in those depths we again found only human qualities which in their very nature were a mixture of good and evil?"

Well, if man's nature, as you and Viktor Frankl describe it, can never be consistently good nor evil and will always be a mixture of both, then you are attempting to destroy free will/free choice. Morality deals with man's choices, no choice no morality and no choices no responsibility. And this also destroys your claim from earlier that there are only two so called "races" decent or indecent as there would obviously be a few more mostly decent and mostly indecent.

So, I again state that I disagree with you and Viktor Frankl.

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A pragmatist is a man who asserts that his action is right or wrong according to its result. But even then he does not know right from wrong; he knows only pleasing or unpleasing effects, which he arbitrarily designates as "right" or "wrong". Long-range principles are meaningless to him. He is an anti-intellectual, a-moral subjectivist. He has no great passions, no great values; whatever life dishes out to him he blandly and unquestioningly accepts. He has no intense joys, no intense sorrows. He is like the greygho st of a man who never was.

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Good advice to young man growing,

Taking it he gets to knowing

Where he'll shoot his seeds a-sowing.

However hard the wind's a-blowing,

Tomorrow holds the green stuff showing.

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When Justice is once again the rage

This will become a better age.

The hands of Justice turned the page

And what was badly written passed.

A newer writing came of age

Till wealth in readers' minds amassed.

Then Justice, in action, gave satisfaction.

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Nothingial Branden and Barbaric Brand'

Sought to vilify the hero, Rand.

But valiant Valliant, with truth severe,

Set T he O fficial C owards on their ear.

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Progressives for progress? No such thing.

Regressive the mud is which they sling.

Abuse of language is their sly art,

Which they twist and pry and pull apart.

"Pro-life", too, is false aligned,

With no true love for the human mind.

Progressive regressives is all they are;

Let them go to their black hole star.

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For Betsy.

The silent joke is a hidden poke;

The tongue is still, the pointer smoke.

The mirror catches but ghostly air,

While ribs are tickled, and no one's there! ;)

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For Betsy.

The silent joke is a hidden poke;

The tongue is still, the pointer smoke.

The mirror catches but ghostly air,

While ribs are tickled, and no one's there! ;)

With speakers off I couldn't hear;

Who turned them off was neice so dear.

But now they're on I get a laugh,

For Betsy's jokes and my own gaff. ;)

Explanation: I went to listen to Betsy's comedy routine and couldn't hear a thing. Wrote the first verse above. I then sent a message to Betsy and she said Turn up the volume. I looked at the speaker and it wasn't on. My neice had turned it off. Then I listened and wrote again.

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A man, for safe assylum, to a monestary went,

And then said he was free from the rule of government.

Year upon year he walks untroubled, free,

Forty paces that way, and this way forty-three.

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An Imaginary Conversation

"In the beginning," he started to say.

The beginning of what? said I.

"The whole world," he responded.

Why do you say it began?

"Everything has a beginning."

Name one thing that does.

"The day."

When does the day begin? Is it not day somewhere, all the time?

"Okay, then, our conversation. It began when I said 'In the beginning.'"

But conversation is man-made. Name one thing that is not man-made which had a beginning.

"Light. Before there was light there was darkness. And God said, 'Let there be light'."

Hmm, but when did the darkness begin?

"It was just dark, everywhere."

Was it dark on earth, before the earth was? Was it dark everyplace when there was no place?

"It just always was. An absence of light."

So God was just sitting on nothing nowhere in the darkness, seeing nothing and hearing nothing, all powerful over nothing, needing nothing and wanting nothing, perfectly happy and completely secure, till the coffin lid popped open?

"There are some things we just can't know."

Oh. you mean we can't know that there was a beginning to everything. In fact, maybe there wasn't a beginning.

"Nobody argues like this."

Are you arguing with nobody? When did that begin?

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Individual rights are the only girders of civilization; without them, the whole collapses in puffs of dust. With them, the weight of man's achievements becomes a gravity pulling upward.

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Easy Money

Turn on the TV, watch one of a half a dozen game shows. See the easy money flow. In minutes, sometimes seconds, contestants win twenty, fifty, a hundred thousand dollars-----for a lucky spin, an answer to a question, or filling in the words of a popular song. Or watch an object of pity getting a brand new house built for him, for free. Then picture the live audiences of these shows, and all the people watching these shows in their living rooms. See the idea of "easy money" flowing into their minds and souls, where it mingles with the thought, "That could be me; I'm just as good and deserving." "Easy money" is on a roll, and the main wheel is just plain "easy"---no hard work, no lasting perseverance, no strict dedication, no self-engendered effort, and absolutely no patience, just easy, easy, easy, seeping into heart and mind and sinew. "Take it easy," they say; "Don't work too hard," when the game is over and the friend departs----to go to the bank and stand in line a whole half hour to cash his welfare check.

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To B. Royce: Re: "Easy Money":

Boy, I sure saw alot of that when I worked at Seven-Eleven for almost sixteen years (the store near CSUS); so many people coming in to buy scratch-off tickets as if it was their only hope, even if they had a fairly good-paying job. And I would see their practically metaphysical disappointment when they found they had bought a losing ticket (many would scratch off the tickets right there in the store).

Yes, the cards--or scratch-off's--are stacked against them by a malevolent being or something.

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Re Kelley's "Truth and Toleration": Toleration of what? Of the false?

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For socialized health care

You pay and pay and pay,

Until the pain of paying

Makes pain half go away.

And then some doctor looks at you

And says that you'll be fine,

If you'll but pay a little more

And get back into line.

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The nature-lover packs up all his man-made camping equipment, stuffs it (along with his man-made packages of provisions) into his man-made car, looks at his man-made map and sets out on a man-made highway in search of the beauty of the wild. Later, lying in his tent and happily feeling one with Mother Nature, he thinks with a deep resentment about the gas and oil and steel companies that devour the land and make it increasingly difficult to enjoy her. He's glad to know, he thinks, that he's got a social conscience and that he's a deep thinker, a man wisely concerned with the important things in life. Then he glances at his self-illuminating watch, rolls over and goes to sleep-----dreaming of last years' pleasure cruise on his friend's yacht, which was filled with every man-made convenience possible. Ah, so wonderful to be totally alone with the sea, to escape from the inhibiting restraints of soul-corrupting civilization.

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