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Gays In The Military

108 posts in this topic

I would also offer that you (and maybe some others) have very little idea of what military life is like. From the time one is sent to boot-camp or officer training the military basically owns and dictates almost all of one's time. The military member is supposed to be able to deploy anywhere around the world to answer the call of defending their country. From where one lives to how far one can go on one's time off. From when one will be at work and how long one will stay at work. For a large part of one's military life they are controlled by their military service group. It is the uniqueness of the military that basically demands a certain set of standards which lead to the military's purpose being achieved. You might not like their standards nor agree with them, but their very nature demands unit cohesion unlike anything seen in a civilian workforce.
I think it's clear now that Ray is not 'anti-gay' or a bigot of any kind. As someone who intimately understands what military service is, I trust his convictions on the matter, even if I disagree with the views of men who serve today. We have all been so bombarded with 'gay rights' for years now that it becomes difficult to sift through the feel good haze. Let me therefore state without hesitation that I couldn't care less if a gay man never serves in my lifetime. If in 50 years (or whenever) the American culture has become more rational, then it will all be a non-issue anyway.

Finally, in my personal life, no one persecutes or abuses me in any way with regard to my sexual orientation TODAY. That is enough for me. I am happy to delegate to men more capable than I the defense of the free countries of the world.

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Ray,

Thanks for your thoughtful post. It makes it clear that we are talking past each others, so I'll just agree to disagree with you on this issue.

Cheers,

JD

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I saw this film recently. If the numbers are accurate, and they claim to use official Pentagon numbers, something is seriously, seriously wrong with our military's culture:

http://invisiblewarmovie.com/

If truthful, I think this film goes some way in countering the notion that women have been seamlessly integrated into the US military, a point offered several times during the back and forth on this thread.

I don't have either the expertise or facts, and I don't want to link the issues raised in this documentary to the topic of this thread as a rationalist would, but my concern over admitting homosexuals into the military were amplified after watching this film.

And, no, I don't think there's such a thing as a right to serve in the military. We should have the most potent force we can afford. If that means it's comprised of just women, or just homosexuals, or just hung up heterosexuals, or just hardened criminals, or just bots, or just whatever, so be it.

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WHY would a homosexual man want to serve in the military in the first place? It doesn't seem like rational decision to make. I asked two homosexual friends of mine (actually my wife's) whilst at a BBQ party for mutual friends and they said that they thought "99% of them (gay men) wouldn't serve" and that those who did may have an "unsafe attraction to men". Granted, this was their opinion, but I geuss I can see why they may have that opinion. War is hell. You had better be cut from tough mettle in order to face the very possible chaos, death, and destruction raging around you.

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War is hell. You had better be cut from tough mettle in order to face the very possible chaos, death, and destruction raging around you.

I'm not sure that I'm reading you correctly, but for the record I don't think the sort of toughness needed to fight in a war correlates with gender preference. My concern is that I don't think most people would be comfortable living the front line life when potential sexual attraction is a factor, all day every day. I also don't know if our military's culture can handle it -- not if there are going to be parallels with how too many women are treated in the armed forces.

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WHY would a homosexual man want to serve in the military in the first place? It doesn't seem like rational decision to make. I asked two homosexual friends of mine (actually my wife's) whilst at a BBQ party for mutual friends and they said that they thought "99% of them (gay men) wouldn't serve" and that those who did may have an "unsafe attraction to men". Granted, this was their opinion, but I geuss I can see why they may have that opinion. War is hell. You had better be cut from tough mettle in order to face the very possible chaos, death, and destruction raging around you.

Recall Leonides and the 300 Spartans that gave the Persians grief at the Battle of the Hot Gates. Spartans incorporated homosexuality into their military training. The theory is that a hoplite would fight all the harder to protect his lover who stood shield to shield next to him. The 300 gave gay warriors a good name.

Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_militaries_of_ancient_Greece

ruveyn

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WHY would a homosexual man want to serve in the military in the first place? It doesn't seem like rational decision to make. I asked two homosexual friends of mine (actually my wife's) whilst at a BBQ party for mutual friends and they said that they thought "99% of them (gay men) wouldn't serve" and that those who did may have an "unsafe attraction to men". Granted, this was their opinion, but I geuss I can see why they may have that opinion. War is hell. You had better be cut from tough mettle in order to face the very possible chaos, death, and destruction raging around you.

Recall Leonides and the 300 Spartans that gave the Persians grief at the Battle of the Hot Gates. Spartans incorporated homosexuality into their military training. The theory is that a hoplite would fight all the harder to protect his lover who stood shield to shield next to him. The 300 gave gay warriors a good name.

Please see: http://en.wikipedia...._ancient_Greece

ruveyn

What does any of this have to do with US culture in the foreseeable?

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WHY would a homosexual man want to serve in the military in the first place? It doesn't seem like rational decision to make. I asked two homosexual friends of mine (actually my wife's) whilst at a BBQ party for mutual friends and they said that they thought "99% of them (gay men) wouldn't serve" and that those who did may have an "unsafe attraction to men". Granted, this was their opinion, but I geuss I can see why they may have that opinion. War is hell. You had better be cut from tough mettle in order to face the very possible chaos, death, and destruction raging around you.

Recall Leonides and the 300 Spartans that gave the Persians grief at the Battle of the Hot Gates. Spartans incorporated homosexuality into their military training. The theory is that a hoplite would fight all the harder to protect his lover who stood shield to shield next to him. The 300 gave gay warriors a good name.

Please see: http://en.wikipedia...._ancient_Greece

ruveyn

What does any of this have to do with US culture in the foreseeable?

I simply gsbr an example of how homosexual males can be excellent soldiers.

In a war I want an army that can win. I do not care with whom or with what the troops sleep. If our Army consists of killer pansies, then let them fight.

ruveyn

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