Henrik Unné

Why I admire my wife

28 posts in this topic

You have again dodged the issue of what a 'second-hander' is and rambled on with more speculative verbiage about other people's motives and rationalization that attempts to deduce reality from what you call abstract thought.

OK. So the question is - what is a second hander, and in what way are the vast majority of men second handers?

Well, a second hander is, of course, a man who gets his ideas from other men, *without examining them critically* (I am aware that even first handers can learn from other men), instead of from reality, so to speak. To the extent that a man gets his ideas from others, without examining them with his own mind, he is a second hander. So, to the extent that a man gets his ideas on the subject of philosophy from others, without examining them with his own mind, he is a second hander. And most people, in my experience, and judging by my reading also, do accept whatever philosophic ideas that they happen to hear in the culture around them, without examining those ideas critically. So most men *are* second handers to an extent.

To what extent? Well, if they are first handed in such questions as - which movie will I see tonight, what will I eat for dinner, what shirt will I wear etc. that is not a very significant first handedness. It is more important and significant to be first handed in the most important issues in life, such as philosophy. Of course there are many important issues in between philosophy and such question as "What shirt am I going to wear?" And the principle is that the some issues are "higher up" than others. It is the ones that are higher up, that are not so narrow, trivial and concrete which are most important. And most people are, in my experience only first handed in the relatively "easy" isssues far down on the hierarchy of importance.They may know what they like in regard to what shirt they want to wear, or which movie they want to see, but in the difficult and important issues, such as philosophy, they are second handed. So I say that most men are second handed to a very high degree. The degree to which they are second handed will vary. Some men will be first handed in regard to who to marry, some won´t. Some men will be first handed in regard to the question of whether to join the labor union, and some won´t. Etc. But most men will not persist in being first handed very high up on the hierarchy of difficulty and importance.

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You have again dodged the issue of what a 'second-hander' is and rambled on with more speculative verbiage about other people's motives and rationalization that attempts to deduce reality from what you call abstract thought.

OK. So the question is - what is a second hander, and in what way are the vast majority of men second handers?

Well, a second hander is, of course, a man who gets his ideas from other men, *without examining them critically* (I am aware that even first handers can learn from other men), instead of from reality, so to speak. To the extent that a man gets his ideas from others, without examining them with his own mind, he is a second hander. So, to the extent that a man gets his ideas on the subject of philosophy from others, without examining them with his own mind, he is a second hander. And most people, in my experience, and judging by my reading also, do accept whatever philosophic ideas that they happen to hear in the culture around them, without examining those ideas critically. So most men *are* second handers to an extent.

To what extent? Well, if they are first handed in such questions as - which movie will I see tonight, what will I eat for dinner, what shirt will I wear etc. that is not a very significant first handedness. It is more important and significant to be first handed in the most important issues in life, such as philosophy. Of course there are many important issues in between philosophy and such question as "What shirt am I going to wear?" And the principle is that the some issues are "higher up" than others. It is the ones that are higher up, that are not so narrow, trivial and concrete which are most important. And most people are, in my experience only first handed in the relatively "easy" isssues far down on the hierarchy of importance.They may know what they like in regard to what shirt they want to wear, or which movie they want to see, but in the difficult and important issues, such as philosophy, they are second handed. So I say that most men are second handed to a very high degree. The degree to which they are second handed will vary. Some men will be first handed in regard to who to marry, some won´t. Some men will be first handed in regard to the question of whether to join the labor union, and some won´t. Etc. But most men will not persist in being first handed very high up on the hierarchy of difficulty and importance.

You are still rambling, rationalizing and speculating about other people's lives and alleged depravity. People do not build their lives, successful careers, accumulation of assets and friendships on first-hand decisions limited to the likes of what shirt to wear. If you don't recognize that then maybe that explains the state of your own life and outlook on the world while you speculate about higher "philosophy" and denounce everyone else for not doing so. First-hand decisions and the integrity to follow them are required in all aspects of life -- the one here in reality. That is what thinking and action is for. People are not "morally depraved second-handers" for not engaging in abstract thought at the level you insist. You are missing a lot.

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Well, a second hander is, of course, a man who gets his ideas from other men, *without examining them critically* (I am aware that even first handers can learn from other men), instead of from reality, so to speak. To the extent that a man gets his ideas from others, without examining them with his own mind, he is a second hander.

This is incorrect on several counts. The only proper place to get one's ideas from is from reality whether one learns them from others or discovers them on one's own. A teacher is only a scout who has been over the territory, knows it well, and can guide you, but you have to travel it yourself.

The essential thing is not simply examining ideas critically -- a rationalist does that all the time -- but tying one's ideas to reality. It is not just a matter of examining ideas with one's own mind -- a subjectivist does that -- but making sure one's ideas correspond with reality.

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