Jim A.

Who is Pamela Geller?...

25 posts in this topic

I've done a little searching on the net about Pamela Geller, who evidently has launched a campaign against Islam and who has a website called www.Atlasshrugs.org. I've heard a portion of one of her speeches, and she sounds consistent with Ayn Rand's philosophy, but something--which I can't define--made me wonder if she is really a consistent believer in Objectivism. If that's the case, then she shouldn't be hijacking the title of Ayn Rand's philosophical and literary masterpiece for her website.

Can anyone direct me to where on the net I can get the best insight into her ideas?

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As far as I can tell, she's a general-issue neocon. But maybe she has delusions about being the heir of Ayn Rand.

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I've done a little searching on the net about Pamela Geller, who evidently has launched a campaign against Islam and who has a website called www.Atlasshrugs.org. I've heard a portion of one of her speeches, and she sounds consistent with Ayn Rand's philosophy, but something--which I can't define--made me wonder if she is really a consistent believer in Objectivism. If that's the case, then she shouldn't be hijacking the title of Ayn Rand's philosophical and literary masterpiece for her website.

Can anyone direct me to where on the net I can get the best insight into her ideas?

I just saw Pamela Geller and spoke with her last week when she and Robert Spencer were in L.A. giving a talk on their new book.

51-vUc1zSRL.jpg

The way she exploits Ayn Rand and other aspects of her web site, as well as the sexually provocative way she dresses and conducts herself, indicates a person whose primary goal is self-promotion, and I am suspicious of that, but there are some positives too.

She doesn't claim to be an Objectivist or a spokesman for Ayn Rand, but for individual rights and other political values Objectivists hold dear. In situations where she has been asked to endorse religion or restrictions on abortion before conservative audiences, she hasn't, but has artfully sidestepped the issue. In her speeches she quotes Ayn Rand and uses concepts like "hating the good for being the good" accurately and in context. When I approached the book signing table, I noticed that she had a copy of Ayn Rand Answers in her tote bag with a bookmark in it. All in all, I think she is a fan of Ayn Rand who is actively promoting Objectivist values, but not an Objectivist.

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The way she exploits Ayn Rand and other aspects of her web site, as well as the sexually provocative way she dresses and conducts herself, indicates a person whose primary goal is self-promotion, and I am suspicious of that, but there are some positives too.
I think your suspicions were well-founded. Apparently a conservative-blog war has erupted over Geller spreading a conspiracy theory that Rick Perry was a Dhimmi, then claiming that Ace of Ace of Spades had made sexually inappropriate comments about her breasts in the past.

http://minx.cc/?post=320657

http://minx.cc/?post=320603

It's difficult to tell which is plunging more, her credibility or her neck-line.

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All in all, I think she is a fan of Ayn Rand who is actively promoting Objectivist values, but not an Objectivist.

She is an outspoken and well known tea-partyer who has especially concentrated on the threats of islamofascism (for which she is especially vilified by the left). She is a big fan of Ayn Rand (on more than politics) but has a long way to go in understanding her ideas and approach to thinking.

Among other things, her enthusiasm has led her to post entire articles she likes by Ayn Rand and others without regard to copyright permission, e.g.:

A bulls-eye from Robert Tracinski of The Intellectual Activist, a paid-only newsletter. Tracinski may not cotton to my running the whole thing, but it is that good. The whole country should read it.

Here are a couple of enthusiastic quotes from her on Ayn Rand:

An Objective Birthday February 2, 1905.

It's Ayn Rand's birthday. I love her. She is the one thinker I turn to repeatedly for her clarity and logic. Her thinking is seamless, mathematical even, the process flawless.

The name of this blog was inspired by her monumental contribution to mankind, Atlas Shrugged. It applied to everything that is happening on so many levels, even if you were unfamiliar with Rand's work: the icon, the idea of Atlas Shrugging, of what would inevitably happen if Atlas shrugged. The world would fall down. Indeed...

Capitalism: The Separation of State and Economics Thursday, May 28, 2009

When I have a rare, stolen moment (say on a plane, for example, with no internet access :), I read. And I am always drawn back to Ayn Rand. I read Rand to refresh, renourish my soul. She fortifies me, my epistemology. I have been reading "The Voice of Reason" while vaca-ing with the Atlas kinderlach. One of her essays resonated so strongly during this statist seizure of America under the Communist Obamao - I thought I would share it with you...

But almost all of her writings and public appearances are not about Ayn Rand or Objectivism at all, instead concentrating independently on current political events. The title of her blog Atlas Shrugs is misleading in that it is neither about Ayn Rand's ideas nor especially knowledgeable about them beyond some obvious major themes and occasional outspoken support like the above two quotes. If she were not associated with that blog name, in listening to her presentations and the kinds of explanations she gives you would ordinarily not think to associate her with Ayn Rand.

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From what I've seen of Geller, she is a bit of a sensationalist, but overall she does more good than harm. The way in which she goes about fighting for her causes is not always to my taste (I prefer her colleague Spencer's more dispassionate, scientific approach), but her causes are valid and she fights well for them. As Betsy said, she is a fan of Objectivism and Rand, and usually discusses Objectivist material properly and in context, but she is not herself an Objectivist nor has she ever claimed to be. She is of Jewish descent, but beyond the fact that I know she believes in God I do not know what she believes or practices, if anything. Overall I think she's a good person doing good work, even if I don't always like the way in which she does it.

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"The way she exploits Ayn Rand and other aspects of her web site, as well as the sexually provocative way she dresses and conducts herself, indicates a person whose primary goal is self-promotion, and I am suspicious of that, but there are some positives too."

Now that I think of it, I bet that part of the reason why she dresses so provocatively is because many Islamists believe that "proper" attire for women means walking around swathed in black coffins. She made this video for the troops once (I think it was to wish them Merry Christmas) where she was dressed in a bikini, and I know for a fact that she did that specifically to tick the Islamists off.

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Now that I think of it, I bet that part of the reason why she dresses so provocatively is because many Islamists believe that "proper" attire for women means walking around swathed in black coffins. She made this video for the troops once (I think it was to wish them Merry Christmas) where she was dressed in a bikini, and I know for a fact that she did that specifically to tick the Islamists off.
I can understand a beautiful woman who dresses nice because she is proud of her body, but Pamela's wardrobe habits are borderline exhibitionism. One can dress nice without having to look like Elvira, Mistress of the Dark.

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From what I've seen of Geller, she is a bit of a sensationalist, but overall she does more good than harm.
Sensationalist that jump onto conspiracy theories (Obammy's birth certificate) do more harm than good, as they undermine credibility and divide the conservative blogosphere movement.

Spencer and Geller seem to be displaying a Charles Johnson-eque guilt by the most tenuous association, where they are demanding condemnation of Perry on the flimsiest of circumstances, all while dividing the blogosphere and insulting blogging giants like Ace of Ace of Spades. This kind of drama isn't productive for anyone, other than getting Pamela Geller more hits on her website. Her history of exchanges with Ace suggests that one of her primary motivations is a Peter Keating like desire to be famous and be at the center of attention. Her sensationalist attitude and always epic-cleavage only reinforce this view.

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Now that I think of it, I bet that part of the reason why she dresses so provocatively is because many Islamists believe that "proper" attire for women means walking around swathed in black coffins. She made this video for the troops once (I think it was to wish them Merry Christmas) where she was dressed in a bikini, and I know for a fact that she did that specifically to tick the Islamists off.
I can understand a beautiful woman who dresses nice because she is proud of her body, but Pamela's wardrobe habits are borderline exhibitionism. One can dress nice without having to look like Elvira, Mistress of the Dark.

I have searched for these "provocative" pictures of Pam Geller, to no avail. All I see are vlogs with her in a bikini (and not very revealing shots at that). Does anyone have a link to these "provocative" pictures?

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Now that I think of it, I bet that part of the reason why she dresses so provocatively is because many Islamists believe that "proper" attire for women means walking around swathed in black coffins. She made this video for the troops once (I think it was to wish them Merry Christmas) where she was dressed in a bikini, and I know for a fact that she did that specifically to tick the Islamists off.
I can understand a beautiful woman who dresses nice because she is proud of her body, but Pamela's wardrobe habits are borderline exhibitionism. One can dress nice without having to look like Elvira, Mistress of the Dark.

I have searched for these "provocative" pictures of Pam Geller, to no avail. All I see are vlogs with her in a bikini (and not very revealing shots at that). Does anyone have a link to these "provocative" pictures?

I had the same experience. I had no idea who she was and I looked her up on Google Image and didn't see anything unusual.

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Now that I think of it, I bet that part of the reason why she dresses so provocatively is because many Islamists believe that "proper" attire for women means walking around swathed in black coffins. She made this video for the troops once (I think it was to wish them Merry Christmas) where she was dressed in a bikini, and I know for a fact that she did that specifically to tick the Islamists off.
I can understand a beautiful woman who dresses nice because she is proud of her body, but Pamela's wardrobe habits are borderline exhibitionism. One can dress nice without having to look like Elvira, Mistress of the Dark.

I have searched for these "provocative" pictures of Pam Geller, to no avail. All I see are vlogs with her in a bikini (and not very revealing shots at that). Does anyone have a link to these "provocative" pictures?

She's not a celebrity or a porn-star so I'm not sure how many "provocative pictures" google image will avail you. The observations I and Betsy and others are making is from a long history of reading her site or seeing her in person, observations that may not be archived or easily accessible now.
Bear in mind, this is the woman who got attention by doing bikini videos and used to pass around business cards of her in a very very tight superman-style t-shirt, with her back arched so that her breasts strained through the fabric.

When I paid more attention to her in the past I remember seeing many video interviews (her interviewing someone else) where her garb was revealing a lot of cleavage, beyond the point of what would be considered tasteful or professional.

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Bear in mind, this is the woman who got attention by doing bikini videos and used to pass around business cards of her in a very very tight superman-style t-shirt, with her back arched so that her breasts strained through the fabric.

I forgot to describe the origin of this quote. It's from one of the links I provided. A google image search should net you the infamous super-man picture. What possibly could be your motivation for such a picture, other than shameless attention grabbing?

In contrast, there are plenty of other beautiful, popular women in the conservative blogosphere movement that do not feel the need to exploit their feminine wiles in such a way for attention.

From searching around current youtube videos and pictures it seems like Gellers has drastically toned down the way she dresses (she is in her 50's now I think). This picture (clicky) is pretty indicative of how I remember her regularly dressing when conducting interviews or giving invited talks. Plunging neck-lines and epic-cleavage of proportions that would only be appropriate as a daring dress at a formal ball, but seems awkwardly out of place in this context.

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Now that I think of it, I bet that part of the reason why she dresses so provocatively is because many Islamists believe that "proper" attire for women means walking around swathed in black coffins. She made this video for the troops once (I think it was to wish them Merry Christmas) where she was dressed in a bikini, and I know for a fact that she did that specifically to tick the Islamists off.
I can understand a beautiful woman who dresses nice because she is proud of her body, but Pamela's wardrobe habits are borderline exhibitionism. One can dress nice without having to look like Elvira, Mistress of the Dark.

I have searched for these "provocative" pictures of Pam Geller, to no avail. All I see are vlogs with her in a bikini (and not very revealing shots at that). Does anyone have a link to these "provocative" pictures?

She's not a celebrity or a porn-star so I'm not sure how many "provocative pictures" google image will avail you. The observations I and Betsy and others are making is from a long history of reading her site or seeing her in person, observations that may not be archived or easily accessible now.

Actually, I found many, many pictures and videos of her, and she was normally dressed in virtually all of them. I don't see and, more importantly, you don't have, any evidence for labeling her dressing "Elvira"-like.

Bear in mind, this is the woman who got attention by doing bikini videos and used to pass around business cards of her in a very very tight superman-style t-shirt, with her back arched so that her breasts strained through the fabric.

When I paid more attention to her in the past I remember seeing many video interviews (her interviewing someone else) where her garb was revealing a lot of cleavage, beyond the point of what would be considered tasteful or professional.

Since she is a public figure, there should be a lot of images out there for you to choose from, if your case were strong. You have not provided any evidence to support your case. Your claims are, as yet, unfounded.

The "Superman" t-shirt photo looks Photoshopped, so I do not set any store by that.

She is not my kind of activist, but I don't see anything wrong with her dressing.

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The "Superman" t-shirt photo looks Photoshopped, so I do not set any store by that.
The superman photo was the image in her website banner in the past. It's definitely her photo as she intended it. If you've been regularly visiting her site for a long time, you'd know this.

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Bear in mind, this is the woman who got attention by doing bikini videos and used to pass around business cards of her in a very very tight superman-style t-shirt, with her back arched so that her breasts strained through the fabric.

I forgot to describe the origin of this quote. It's from one of the links I provided. A google image search should net you the infamous super-man picture. What possibly could be your motivation for such a picture, other than shameless attention grabbing?

In contrast, there are plenty of other beautiful, popular women in the conservative blogosphere movement that do not feel the need to exploit their feminine wiles in such a way for attention.

From searching around current youtube videos and pictures it seems like Gellers has drastically toned down the way she dresses (she is in her 50's now I think). This picture (clicky) is pretty indicative of how I remember her regularly dressing when conducting interviews or giving invited talks. Plunging neck-lines and epic-cleavage of proportions that would only be appropriate as a daring dress at a formal ball, but seems awkwardly out of place in this context.

While that is indeed a low neckline, I do not find it so remarkable, and it is only one instance. She knows she is fairly attractive [not necessarily to me though] for her age - and works hard to maintain her figure - and may feel a need to look "extra sexy" once in a while. One could even put it down to poor taste, and not necessarily exhibitionism.

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Actually, I found many, many pictures and videos of her, and she was normally dressed in virtually all of them. I don't see and, more importantly, you don't have, any evidence for labeling her dressing "Elvira"-like.

I linked this before, but you didn't see it apparently. From her own website:

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00...2d191970c-popup

The podium is obscuring the full effect, but I think you can extrapolate. In the past (years ago) this is exactly as I recall her dressing in photos and interviews and speeches. Betsy said something similar at the start of the thread (her words were "as well as the sexually provocative way she dresses and conducts herself"). This same observation is echoed unanimously in the blogger community. Now she (Geller) seems to have toned down the racy dressing by a lot. People who paid any attention to her in the past were well aware of this. Commenters even invented the derogatory name "Atlas Jugs" for her website. There is an entire history to this, regardless of what google image has archived.

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Actually, I found many, many pictures and videos of her, and she was normally dressed in virtually all of them. I don't see and, more importantly, you don't have, any evidence for labeling her dressing "Elvira"-like.

I linked this before, but you didn't see it apparently. From her own website:

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00...2d191970c-popup

The podium is obscuring the full effect, but I think you can extrapolate. In the past (years ago) this is exactly as I recall her dressing in photos and interviews and speeches. Betsy said something similar at the start of the thread (her words were "as well as the sexually provocative way she dresses and conducts herself"). This same observation is echoed unanimously in the blogger community. Now she (Geller) seems to have toned down the racy dressing by a lot. People who paid any attention to her in the past were well aware of this. Commenters even invented the derogatory name "Atlas Jugs" for her website. There is an entire history to this, regardless of what google image has archived.

I had missed your post with the "clicky" when I first responded, but I addressed it later in my 3:05pm post. See above.

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Now that I think of it, I bet that part of the reason why she dresses so provocatively is because many Islamists believe that "proper" attire for women means walking around swathed in black coffins. She made this video for the troops once (I think it was to wish them Merry Christmas) where she was dressed in a bikini, and I know for a fact that she did that specifically to tick the Islamists off.
I can understand a beautiful woman who dresses nice because she is proud of her body, but Pamela's wardrobe habits are borderline exhibitionism. One can dress nice without having to look like Elvira, Mistress of the Dark.

I have searched for these "provocative" pictures of Pam Geller, to no avail. All I see are vlogs with her in a bikini (and not very revealing shots at that). Does anyone have a link to these "provocative" pictures?

I don't know about anyone else, but the vlog of her in a bikini was what I was referring to. As I said, a bit sensationalist, but also with a not-invalid motive behind it.

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Now that I think of it, I bet that part of the reason why she dresses so provocatively is because many Islamists believe that "proper" attire for women means walking around swathed in black coffins. She made this video for the troops once (I think it was to wish them Merry Christmas) where she was dressed in a bikini, and I know for a fact that she did that specifically to tick the Islamists off.
I can understand a beautiful woman who dresses nice because she is proud of her body, but Pamela's wardrobe habits are borderline exhibitionism. One can dress nice without having to look like Elvira, Mistress of the Dark.

I have searched for these "provocative" pictures of Pam Geller, to no avail. All I see are vlogs with her in a bikini (and not very revealing shots at that). Does anyone have a link to these "provocative" pictures?

I don't know about anyone else, but the vlog of her in a bikini was what I was referring to. As I said, a bit sensationalist, but also with a not-invalid motive behind it.

I knew that's what you were referring to, Brianna. I also agree that her occasional sexual "flaunting" may be part of her psychological "weaponry" against the repressed, radical Islamists she fights. America is a secular country.

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The superman photo was the image in her website banner in the past. It's definitely her photo as she intended it.

What do you think of the figure on her current website banner (link)?

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I have to come out of lurk mode to put in a word here in defense of Pamela Geller, whose blog I read daily.

All issues of style aside, she is doing incredibly good work in educating people about the dangers of militant Islam, very likely at considerable risk to her own personal safety.

I am quite surprised to see a general tone of negativity in some (not all) of these posts about her work. Betsy's posts have been very accurate in my reading, generally praising her for her work while expressing some reservations about her style of dress.

Clearly Geller is not an Objectivist in that she is very religious - not even spelling out "god" in many of the posts that I see. Nevertheless, on the general issue of the threat of militant Islam, I see no inconsistency between her position and Objectivism. Edward Cline writes in almost exactly the same way about the issue.

Leonard Peikoff has spoken directly and clearly on Islam in ways that are very similar to Pamela Geller's work. I therefore find it a little surprising that this issue seems to be on the back burner in Objectivist circles. For example, just scanning ARI's front page today I don't see any mention of Islam. Whether or not you think it's the most important cultural issue out there today, it certainly should rank pretty high. Again, I give credit to Edward Cline for some excellent writing such as these for example.

And from what I can tell Geller's criticisms of Rick Perry are not out of line either. Even before reading these posts I emailed my local Rick Perry campaign workers about this Agha Khan connection, and have gotten nothing reassuring in reply -- actually, nothing at all. The whole issue seems to be developing as we post here, and so far as I can tell Geller deserves lots of credit for bringing it out of the shadows where some seem to want to keep it. I would like to think Rick Perry will handle it and explain it satisfactorily, but so far he has not.

Now, back to lurk mode. :)

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The superman photo was the image in her website banner in the past. It's definitely her photo as she intended it.

What do you think of the figure on her current website banner (link)?

I find that more abstract and artistic. It's not any particular woman, but the concept of "a woman" who is beautiful and in a sensual pose, showing strength and femininity while holding the world. I guess the beautiful and fierce Miss Geller can relate to that for obvious reasons!

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I have to come out of lurk mode to put in a word here in defense of Pamela Geller, whose blog I read daily.

All issues of style aside, she is doing incredibly good work in educating people about the dangers of militant Islam, very likely at considerable risk to her own personal safety.

I am quite surprised to see a general tone of negativity in some (not all) of these posts about her work. Betsy's posts have been very accurate in my reading, generally praising her for her work while expressing some reservations about her style of dress.

Clearly Geller is not an Objectivist in that she is very religious - not even spelling out "god" in many of the posts that I see. Nevertheless, on the general issue of the threat of militant Islam, I see no inconsistency between her position and Objectivism. Edward Cline writes in almost exactly the same way about the issue.

Pamela Geller does good work when it comes to unapologetically raising awareness about Islamic oppression, and nothing can erase these positives. With that said, other people do perceive negative aspects, such as her promoting the sensationalist Obama birth certificate story. These kinds of fringe conspiracy theories undermine credibility and are embarrassing.

I too have read her a lot. Part of the reason I left Little Green Footballs was because King Chuckles (C. Johnson) was calling Pamela and Spencer "fascists" when Pamela/Spencer were clearly making principled stands against Islamofascism.

Additionally, this drama is revealing that some bloggers were annoyed by her flamboyant dressing habits. The advertisement money for blogs is ruled by hits, and whether this was her explicit intention or not cleavage is a cheap way towards lots of hits.

And from what I can tell Geller's criticisms of Rick Perry are not out of line either. Even before reading these posts I emailed my local Rick Perry campaign workers about this Agha Khan connection, and have gotten nothing reassuring in reply -- actually, nothing at all. The whole issue seems to be developing as we post here, and so far as I can tell Geller deserves lots of credit for bringing it out of the shadows where some seem to want to keep it. I would like to think Rick Perry will handle it and explain it satisfactorily, but so far he has not.

The whole Aga Khan/Norquist story is pretty tenuous at best. Even Spencer at one point defended Aga Khan

Furnish: I find myself in the curious (and somewhat uncomfortable) position of disagreeing with my friend Robert Spencer, for whom I have the utmost respect and with whom I almost always totally agree. However, on this issue of whether moderate Islam exists, I think Robert may be missing something....

[prefatory statement about the threat of Wahabism and Sulfism omitted]

However, perhaps because Robert is so well-versed in the theology of Islam, as opposed to the historical record of how that religious theory has been acted out on the stage of history, he seems to overlook the key fact on the ground that certain minorities within Islam have developed a non-literalist, even allegorical, approach to reading the Qur’an. Foremost among these moderates are the Isma`ilis, the Sevener Shi`is, whose global head is the philanthropical Aga Khan. Isma’ilis may number only in the tens of millions (out of the total Muslim community of some 1.3 billion, second only to Christianity’s 2+ billion), but they do exist and they define, for example, jihad not as killing or conquering unbelievers, but as economic development and charity work.

[Further discussion of some other moderate Muslim sects.]

Robert Spencer: In all this my friend Timothy Furnish, whose work I admire, is entirely correct.

So there you go: As late as 2010, Robert Spencer, whose specialty and expertise is in identifying threatening Muslim extremists, expressly states the Aga Khan and his whole sect are actually truly moderate Muslims.

Of course, this was before Pam Geller blew the lid off the conspiracy with her dynamite discoveries.

Now asked why Perry should be condemned for believing Aga Khan to be a moderate in 2009, whereas Robert Spencer thought he was a moderate a year later in 2010, Spencer just says that since Perry was "partnering" with him (that is, doing two brief seminars in Texas), Perry should have "vetted" him.

Did Spencer feel the need to "vet" the Aga Khan before misleading the world by pronouncing upon his peaceableness and moderation?

And if Perry had vetted Khan, what would he have found? Why, that whole not-suspicious-at-all bank purchasing affair.

And then what? What do you do when you've successfully put together the pieces of the Routinely Purchased Bank Mystery?

I guess you denounce him or something.

But Robert Spencer wants to denounce Perry for not knowing the details of the Lawfully Purchased US Fed-Monitored Bank Affair; he is much more modest about denouncing himself for his own lack of suspicion and research.

I mean, that's Rick Perry's job. It's not Robert Spencer's job to watch the jihad or anything.

BTW, sidenote, Robert Spencer can be read at his website, JihadWatch.com.

http://minx.cc/?post=320680

Labeling Perry a Dhimmi from this is quite a stretch.

Now, back to lurk mode. :)
You should come out in the daylight more often! :)

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Now, back to lurk mode. You should come out in the daylight more often! :)

Thank you for your very businesslike post, Carlos! :)

This probably struck a nerve with me this morning not so much because I have been looking for an opportunity to defend Pam Geller.

I think what has been percolating in my mind is that I am seeing some tremendously good work from her, and also in particular from Ed Cline, on this topic, but perhaps not so much from other corners from which I would have expected more. But even now I'll just stop here rather than be critical of others' priorities, and I'll just repeat that I appreciate the good work that Ed Cline, Geller, Wilders, BareNakedIslam, and Gates of Vienna, etc are doing!

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