Jim A.

Koran burnings

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The Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas, is planning to burn copies of the Koran tomorrow, September 11th.

They wouldn't listen, but I wish I could tell them: "Go ahead--burn that Koran! You have the freedom to do that. Just make damn sure your own Bible doesn't have any untruths or false premises in it."

(By the way, today they were to hold a demonstration outside the funeral for Staff Sgt. Infante in Houston, Texas. Once again, they blame America's "tolerance for homosexuality" for the deaths of our fallen soldiers. And on their website, they say: "Thank God for IED's!!" I don't get it.)

(Incidentally, their whole website is pretty scary--to think that anyone would use a technological medium to express such vile irrationality.)

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I think the Koran burning idea is great, even if simply done as a PR stunt to demonstrate the obvious-but-unspoken double standard amongst religions and cultures. The only church I'm aware of is in Florida.

If the president and other politicians urge them to stop to the point of intimidating them into not burning the Koran, we will have the first state-mandated case of censuring free-speech against Islam in America.

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I think the Koran burning idea is great, even if simply done as a PR stunt to demonstrate the obvious-but-unspoken double standard amongst religions and cultures. The only church I'm aware of is in Florida.

If the president and other politicians urge them to stop to the point of intimidating them into not burning the Koran, we will have the first state-mandated case of censuring free-speech against Islam in America.

Reports are that the church is backing off.

Who would've thought . . . ?

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Burn, baby, burn!!! :) Burn the Koran, Bible, Communist Manifesto, and Mein Kamph! These are all legitimate expressions of well-deserved hatred. But the worst enemy of today -- other than bland, banal Welfare Statism -- is evidently Islam. So defiantly, furiously, lustfully, and joyfully burn that damn Koran first and most on September 11th!!! :)

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I think the Koran burning idea is great, even if simply done as a PR stunt to demonstrate the obvious-but-unspoken double standard amongst religions and cultures. The only church I'm aware of is in Florida.

If the president and other politicians urge them to stop to the point of intimidating them into not burning the Koran, we will have the first state-mandated case of censuring free-speech against Islam in America.

There's an issue that hasn't been raised here, but is fundamental. Have you heard of "forcing the end?" It's the idea of some radical Christians that God wants them to provoke a world holocaust that would bring about End Times and the Second Coming. The same idea is behind the idea of expelling Palestinians from the West Bank in order to reclaim the entire Holy Land for the Jews as prophesied in the Bible. Believe me, these people would welcome the slaughter of thousands or even millions of Americans as a sign that they are doing God's work.

Me, I have nothing against the Koran, or the Bible, or even the Upanishads. But this isn't being done as any sort of a protest against an "evil" religion. It's just deliberately waving the red flag at the bull and provoking it to attack -- but attack other people. You can be sure that Jones and his ilk aren't in any danger. Think about it: suppose you had friends or relations working in or traveling in one of the Muslim countries.

Jones reminds me of Elder Daniels in Shaw's one-act play, "The Shewing Up of Blanco Posnet:"

<<ELDER DANIELS. There is One above, Blanco.

BLANCO. What do you know about Him? you that always talk as if He

never did anything without asking your rotten leave first?>>

I wouldn't be so eager to give my rotten leave to Jones.

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Sorry. That should be "I have nothing against burning" the "Holy" books/

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I think the Koran burning idea is great, even if simply done as a PR stunt to demonstrate the obvious-but-unspoken double standard amongst religions and cultures. The only church I'm aware of is in Florida.

If the president and other politicians urge them to stop to the point of intimidating them into not burning the Koran, we will have the first state-mandated case of censuring free-speech against Islam in America.

There's an issue that hasn't been raised here, but is fundamental. Have you heard of "forcing the end?" It's the idea of some radical Christians that God wants them to provoke a world holocaust that would bring about End Times and the Second Coming. The same idea is behind the idea of expelling Palestinians from the West Bank in order to reclaim the entire Holy Land for the Jews as prophesied in the Bible. Believe me, these people would welcome the slaughter of thousands or even millions of Americans as a sign that they are doing God's work.

Me, I have nothing against the Koran, or the Bible, or even the Upanishads. But this isn't being done as any sort of a protest against an "evil" religion. It's just deliberately waving the red flag at the bull and provoking it to attack -- but attack other people. You can be sure that Jones and his ilk aren't in any danger. Think about it: suppose you had friends or relations working in or traveling in one of the Muslim countries.

Jones reminds me of Elder Daniels in Shaw's one-act play, "The Shewing Up of Blanco Posnet:"

<<ELDER DANIELS. There is One above, Blanco.

BLANCO. What do you know about Him? you that always talk as if He

never did anything without asking your rotten leave first?>>

I wouldn't be so eager to give my rotten leave to Jones.

Situations like this at least force the absurdity of the Muslim "be tolerant of our intolerance or we will raze your country to the ground!!1" madness into full light.

The protests of Liberals who say "but it endangers the troops!" can't be taken seriously, as these same Leftists had no complaints for the millions of prior leaks the Media have done which have actually endangered soldiers.

We live in a culture where it is OK for South Park episodes to feature a cartoon Jesus literally defecating and dancing on the American flag, for comedians and popular tv shows to make endless permutations of Jew/Nazi/holocaust jokes, yet it is abominable to merely advocate the burning of the Koran, much less actually perform the act? The principle of the matter makes me want to bbq pork meat using the Koran as charcoal on Sep 11th.

I'm sure doing this would piss off Muslims. But if peaceful relations with radical Muslims is our goal, then put on a burqa and start bowing to Mecca and we can have it overnight.

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I say the hell with the book, let us take the fire-fight right to them! Let us release the dogs of hell upon them and show them what people that really love and respect life can do to death worshipping barbarians. Let us show them what real misery is, without restraint, until they are either dead or sue for peace. Print that!

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I have no problem with someone burning copies of the Koran that they've bought, either. And I would have a problem with a President or a government ordering citizens not to burn it.

If we live in a world where we are so terrified of "kicking the hornet's nest", that ain't good. When are we going to stop worrying about angering statist/theocratic nations, or, probably one day soon, "kooks with nukes"? No free people can live in a world like that. They must focus on disabling such nations with military force.

I just wish that those church people who lately want to burn the Koran would only re-examine their own moral and epistemological "field manual"--the Bible.

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I say the hell with the book, let us take the fire-fight right to them!

To be precise, significant portions of terrorist-supporting countries should be annihilated with thermonuclear weapons. A cluster of megaton yield warheads over Tehran on 9/11 would be a fitting introduction to the extermination of one of the greatest threats mankind has ever faced. Megaton yield, because we don't want Hiroshima-style ruins left by the single 15 kiloton device used back then; we want a smooth pit of molten sand where people once danced to the falling World Trade Center.

To hell with dissolving the enemies' will to fight. Dissolve their molecular structure instead, and no such thing will be necessary. Someone once said "let them hate, so long as they fear". I say let them hate, for they will not have time to fear. Allah cannot hear them over the sound of twenty-five billion kilos of TNT exploding over their heads.

That's a real number, by the way, courtesy of the good doctors Teller and Ulam. Oh, and to not veer off-topic: chuck as many Korans with the bombs as the payload allows for. Technically it's not a book burning but rather a book atomization, but it should do.

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I think the Koran burning idea is great, even if simply done as a PR stunt to demonstrate the obvious-but-unspoken double standard amongst religions and cultures. The only church I'm aware of is in Florida.

If the president and other politicians urge them to stop to the point of intimidating them into not burning the Koran, we will have the first state-mandated case of censuring free-speech against Islam in America.

There's an issue that hasn't been raised here, but is fundamental. Have you heard of "forcing the end?" It's the idea of some radical Christians that God wants them to provoke a world holocaust that would bring about End Times and the Second Coming. The same idea is behind the idea of expelling Palestinians from the West Bank in order to reclaim the entire Holy Land for the Jews as prophesied in the Bible. Believe me, these people would welcome the slaughter of thousands or even millions of Americans as a sign that they are doing God's work.

Situations like this at least force the absurdity of the Muslim "be tolerant of our intolerance or we will raze your country to the ground!!1" madness into full light.

The protests of Liberals who say "but it endangers the troops!" can't be taken seriously, as these same Leftists had no complaints for the millions of prior leaks the Media have done which have actually endangered soldiers.

We live in a culture where it is OK for South Park episodes to feature a cartoon Jesus literally defecating and dancing on the American flag, for comedians and popular tv shows to make endless permutations of Jew/Nazi/holocaust jokes, yet it is abominable to merely advocate the burning of the Koran, much less actually perform the act? The principle of the matter makes me want to bbq pork meat using the Koran as charcoal on Sep 11th.

I'm sure doing this would piss off Muslims. But if peaceful relations with radical Muslims is our goal, then put on a burqa and start bowing to Mecca and we can have it overnight.

I agree with you totally about the hypocrisy of South Park versus pussyfooting when it comes to Muslims. The same sort of hypocrisy was apparent in the liberal praise for a photo called Piss Christ: what if it had been a menorah or a portrait of Martin Luther King in a tank of piss?

But it isn't only liberals who are worried about our troops being endangered by Rev. Jones antics – General Petraeus and such conservatives as Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin have come out against the Koran burning stunt. We have to be guided by common sense and morality, even if our enemies are not. It's fine with me if we assassinate Al Qaeda bigs and Somali pirates. But I've seen calls for nuking Tehran and the like, and some nut case last week thought he was defending the country by knifing a Muslim cab driver. Close on 800 years ago, the legate of Pope Innocent III (an ironic name, that) is said to have ordered the extermination of everyone in the French city of Beziers during the Albigensian Crusade againsxt the heretic Cathars: "Kill them all; God will know his own." Since we are atheists, we could hardly resort to "reasoning" of this sort.

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some nut case last week thought he was defending the country by knifing a Muslim cab driver.

The situation may not be as obvious as some are making it.

But as often at the intersection of politics and violent crime, the story doesn't appear to fit any easy stereotype: The alleged assailant, Michael Enright, is — according to his Facebook profile and the website of the left-leaning media organization Intersections International — a student at the School of Visual Arts and a volunteer for Intersections, which recently produced a statement of support for the Park51 project and is funded by the mainstream, liberal Collegiate Church of New York.

The full article on Politico (link)

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some nut case last week thought he was defending the country by knifing a Muslim cab driver.

The situation may not be as obvious as some are making it.

But as often at the intersection of politics and violent crime, the story doesn't appear to fit any easy stereotype: The alleged assailant, Michael Enright, is — according to his Facebook profile and the website of the left-leaning media organization Intersections International — a student at the School of Visual Arts and a volunteer for Intersections, which recently produced a statement of support for the Park51 project and is funded by the mainstream, liberal Collegiate Church of New York.

The full article on Politico (link)

Yes. It's fragmentarily reported, but what I was able to piece together was that Enright was pro-GZ-Mosque and the cab driver, a Muslim, thought it was a bad idea. This came out from interviews of the cab driver. It really sounds as if Enright knifed the Muslim cab driver because he wasn't towing the Leftist/Islamist line that All Muslims Must Support the Mosque. It was a hate crime against a Muslim who wasn't Muslim enough. By a Leftist emotionalist thug. That's what I got out of what I read. But maybe all that will be sorted out in a trial.

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some nut case last week thought he was defending the country by knifing a Muslim cab driver.

The situation may not be as obvious as some are making it.

If the Koran is widely dissappeared how are the leaders of the USA going to ever know why the Muslims are motivated to act the way they do, e.g., to kill unpersuaded and unaccepted infidels as is required by the Koran?

Its obvious that Obama has read the Koran, at least in part, and its obvious that the major news media authors have not. Knowledge of Allah's words in the Koran explains many of Obama's actions. I understand that many Objectivists also have not read the Koran, and its evident that many of them also haven't a clue as to why the Muslims act the way they do or for what reasons. Islam has the decided edge upon the USA in that they know what and why they will do in the future, and our leaders don't.

Without knowledge of the Koran, and the instructions relative to the infidels provided therein, Americans who are used to Pragmatism, e.g., the philosophy of action without theory, planning, or reason, will believe that Muslims act arbitrarily, e.g., without reasons. Terrorism is taken to be some type of arbitrary psychological aberation or cultural deficiency [ or excellence ], or that it doesn't matter which, Pragmatically. Terrorism in America is now fought with tears and family values, and not with principles of individual rights and conversions of rights to actions in behalf of the individual's life and rational self interest.

Read the Koran.

Inventor

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some nut case last week thought he was defending the country by knifing a Muslim cab driver.

The situation may not be as obvious as some are making it.

If the Koran is widely dissappeared how are the leaders of the USA going to ever know why the Muslims are motivated to act the way they do, e.g., to kill unpersuaded and unaccepted infidels as is required by the Koran?

Its obvious that Obama has read the Koran, at least in part, and its obvious that the major news media authors have not. Knowledge of Allah's words in the Koran explains many of Obama's actions. I understand that many Objectivists also have not read the Koran, and its evident that many of them also haven't a clue as to why the Muslims act the way they do or for what reasons. Islam has the decided edge upon the USA in that they know what and why they will do in the future, and our leaders don't.

Without knowledge of the Koran, and the instructions relative to the infidels provided therein, Americans who are used to Pragmatism, e.g., the philosophy of action without theory, planning, or reason, will believe that Muslims act arbitrarily, e.g., without reasons. Terrorism is taken to be some type of arbitrary psychological aberation or cultural deficiency [ or excellence ], or that it doesn't matter which, Pragmatically. Terrorism in America is now fought with tears and family values, and not with principles of individual rights and conversions of rights to actions in behalf of the individual's life and rational self interest.

As explained before in another thread, I do not care why Muslims take their actions. What matters is that they took those actions, which were evil, and we should take actions in the defense of our lifes and wipe them off the face of the planet. There is nothing more to be said when one commits an act of war.

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[...]

As explained before in another thread, I do not care why Muslims take their actions. What matters is that they took those actions, which were evil, and we should take actions in the defense of our lifes and wipe them off the face of the planet. There is nothing more to be said when one commits an act of war.

If you are at war with Islam, and you don't know why they act, then you are at a disadvantage. The old adage of war theory, "Know your ememy," is appropriate. The Muslims know the Americans, whose society and ideas are transparently available, and the Americans don't know Islam.

Inventor

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[...]

As explained before in another thread, I do not care why Muslims take their actions. What matters is that they took those actions, which were evil, and we should take actions in the defense of our lifes and wipe them off the face of the planet. There is nothing more to be said when one commits an act of war.

If you are at war with Islam, and you don't know why they act, then you are at a disadvantage. The old adage of war theory, "Know your ememy," is appropriate. The Muslims know the Americans, whose society and ideas are transparently available, and the Americans don't know Islam.

It is rational for an intelligence officer to know all sorts of things about Muslims (their customs, their moral codes, etc.) as it will keep the intel officer alive and undercover. But, as the leader of a country I do not need to dip my brain in cow crap to understand why my enemies attack, they attacked and I should crush them. If one wants to study the enemies military leaders tactics and strategy then that is always rational. I do not care about their moral code, because I am going to annihilate it and those that do not denounce it.

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