Laars

An Introduction

22 posts in this topic

Hi everybody,

I'm from the Netherlands, I joined the forum because I was amazed by the ideas of Ayn Rand, her philosophy and opions about life when I started to read Atlas Shrugged, the book did change my whole view at life. Last week I bought 'The Virtue of Selfishness', I'm half through the book now and I am, again, amazed by her ideas of ethics. I also joined the forum because where I'm from (the Netherlands), there aren't much people who like Ayn Rand, and I would like to have a place where I'm able to ask questions about her philosophy and I think it would very interesting to discuss her ideas with other people.

If you got any questions, you're free to ask.

Laars,

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Welcome Laars. Virtue Of Selfishness was my first encounter with Ayn Rand, and it was the best book for me to grasp her ideas. Others prefer fiction. Let us hope that the Dutch are the first Europeans to embrace her ideas. My father was from there, and I am aware of the Dutch, in their history, being free thinkers.

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Welcome, Laars. I suppose you know about Geert Wilders' trial. It'll be interesting to see the verdict.

I notice you're using the Big Daddy from BioShock as your avatar. Good game, and a commonly misunderstood one, even by Objectivists.

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Welcome Laars. Virtue Of Selfishness was my first encounter with Ayn Rand, and it was the best book for me to grasp her ideas. Others prefer fiction. Let us hope that the Dutch are the first Europeans to embrace her ideas. My father was from there, and I am aware of the Dutch, in their history, being free thinkers.

I also like that about The Virtue of Selfishness, it's totally useable in today's world. The Netherlands has always been a safe haven for people who were being discriminated or prosecuted in their own country, we held the principle of freedom of religion and speech very high. Although my country is political a pretty socialist country, but there are also some things that we do better than the Americans, in my opion. I'll give some examples later on, this isn't the right topic for that.

Welcome to THE FORUM, Laars, I hope you enjoy your time here.

Thank you. I'm looking forward to sharing my opions with others about the ideas of Ayn Rand.

Welcome, Laars. I suppose you know about Geert Wilders' trial. It'll be interesting to see the verdict.

I notice you're using the Big Daddy from BioShock as your avatar. Good game, and a commonly misunderstood one, even by Objectivists.

Yes, I know about the trial of Geert Wilders. I heard he was acquitted. I think they never should have sued him, as previously said, we, here in the Netherlands find the freedom of speech very important. And although I absolutely disagree with the opions of Wilders, I think every person has the right to say what he wants, I think there should be a borderline, but the freedom to say what you want should be big.

About the BioShock game, I've completed it around 15 times now, it is, by far, the best game I've ever played. The story is very good, the whole idea of a fallen utopia,, including the setting, is fabulous and I love the philosophical tune in it. What do you mean by commingly misunderstood?

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Welcome Laars! Another European joins the Forum. This is promising - it means Ayn Rand's ideas are gaining traction even here.

I looked up Bioshock, I think most people's criticism might be that it paints Ayn Rand's system of government in a bad light. But what I read was the description of anarcho-libertarian utopia, that is, a society based not on property rights but on the lack of any government, which as all anarchies do, eventually became a dictatorship.

I think Bioshock is closer to Peter Thiel's anarcho-libertarian utopia. He mentioned many times that he would like to build an underwater city. In which case, the game is a valid criticism of anarcho-libertarianism, and fails only by labelling it as Ayn Rand's idea of ideal government.

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Welcome Laars! Another European joins the Forum. This is promising - it means Ayn Rand's ideas are gaining traction even here.

I looked up Bioshock, I think most people's criticism might be that it paints Ayn Rand's system of government in a bad light. But what I read was the description of anarcho-libertarian utopia, that is, a society based not on property rights but on the lack of any government, which as all anarchies do, eventually became a dictatorship.

Have you any idea what the number of Europeans on this forum is?

About BioShock, Rapture started to collapse when the parasites started with their ''work'' (Frank Fontaine). The first years, without the parasites, were great. So I disagree that BioShock puts Objectivism in a bad light. Rapture was a example of the laissez-faire capitalism, so no anarchy.

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The writer of BioShock, Ken Levine, responded to an email sent to him by fellow Objectivist "Inspector". His objection wasn't against Objectivism as such, but was rather a shall we say non-fervent caution against extremism, i.e. consistency or radicalism. We know about that one because it is often used consciously as an anti-concept by individuals much less rational than Mr. Levine.

Andrew Ryan (a hint at Ayn Rand) founded the underwater city of Rapture, where the game takes place, in order to escape the tyranny of the outside world. This is partially an allusion to Galt's Gulch, and, well, listen to what Ryan says in the game's intro. As well, Rapture is effectively in a state of ongoing emergency or war, given that its revelation would expose it in the extreme.

Here is a collection of Inspector's posts for some exposition on the matter (hope there's no feud going on between the FORUM and OO):

http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.p...mp;#entry154825

http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.p...mp;#entry174634

http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.p...mp;#entry174652

http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.p...mp;#entry174740

http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.p...mp;#entry175012

http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.p...mp;#entry175060

http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.p...mp;#entry175107

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The writer of BioShock, Ken Levine, responded to an email sent to him by fellow Objectivist "Inspector". His objection wasn't against Objectivism as such, but was rather a shall we say non-fervent caution against extremism, i.e. consistency or radicalism. We know about that one because it is often used consciously as an anti-concept by individuals much less rational than Mr. Levine.

Andrew Ryan (a hint at Ayn Rand) founded the underwater city of Rapture, where the game takes place, in order to escape the tyranny of the outside world. This is partially an allusion to Galt's Gulch, and, well, listen to what Ryan says in the game's intro. As well, Rapture is effectively in a state of ongoing emergency or war, given that its revelation would expose it in the extreme.

Here is a collection of Inspector's posts for some exposition on the matter (hope there's no feud going on between the FORUM and OO):

http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.p...mp;#entry154825

http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.p...mp;#entry174634

http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.p...mp;#entry174652

http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.p...mp;#entry174740

http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.p...mp;#entry175012

http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.p...mp;#entry175060

http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.p...mp;#entry175107

Okay, I can't make up the ''commonly misunderstooding'' part from your text? BioShock is viewed as a game that is inspired by Atlas Shrugged, so, what's the misunderstanding exactly?

PS: How can you edit your posts?

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Editing is for administrators only on this forum.

BioShock is commonly misunderstood as being an "attack against Objectivism". I was hoping to show that's not the case, and that the game shouldn't be cast aside due to such an assumption. It is a good game, after all. :D

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Editing is for administrators only on this forum.

BioShock is commonly misunderstood as being an "attack against Objectivism". I was hoping to show that's not the case, and that the game shouldn't be cast aside due to such an assumption. It is a good game, after all. :D

Oh okay, so my writing failures have to stay.. :D

Oh okay, I probably didn't saw what you meant because I don't see BioShock as an attack on Objectivism, instead it's more a good thing for objectivism: an utopia is very close with Objectivism. The only reason why Rapture went to hell is because Ryan let in all kinds of people with different philosophical believes. Rapture reminded my of Galt's Gulch to be honest..

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Oh okay, so my writing failures have to stay.. :D
This is a good thing. It means people on here can't change their posts after the fact because of some disagreement or something. It also improve the quality of most posts because you must write them correctly the first time. Also, in my understanding, administrators can't (or don't) edit posts - they simply delete them. If you make a post so full of errors you would like to repost it, send Betsy an email and she'll delete it for you.

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Oh okay, so my writing failures have to stay.. :D
This is a good thing. It means people on here can't change their posts after the fact because of some disagreement or something. It also improve the quality of most posts because you must write them correctly the first time. Also, in my understanding, administrators can't (or don't) edit posts - they simply delete them. If you make a post so full of errors you would like to repost it, send Betsy an email and she'll delete it for you.

Actually send me a PM or hit the "report" button which comes to me and I'll try to fix things. Since Laars is not a native English speaker, we'll try to help him out.

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Oops, I meant PM, not email in my post. I'm all for helping Lars out.

As a side note: I went back to OO.net today to find an old post for Lars. It came to my attention that some of my old posts had been changed with my knowledge, years after they had been posted. (There should be an exclamation point at the end of that sentence, but, unfortunately, it's not terribly unexpected.) So I want to say thanks again Betsy for establishing this forum and moderating it so well.

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Just wanted to say hello Laars, and that I've seen a surprising number of Europeans and other non-Americans on the forum, so you do have some company over there in the social democratic "utopia," even if it is a bit spread out.

P.S. I agree there are some things Europe does better than America. I attribute some of this to your lack of a serious religious contingent (well, at least you didn't used to have one), and the fact that over there, nobody has to sneak in social democratism under cover of darkness, so you don't have some of the kinks that can come up when you try to import it as a crazy mish-mash while the voters aren't looking :D

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About the editing, okay, I can understand. I'll send a PM when one of my posts becomes to messed up.

Thanks to everyone for their welcome regards.

I'm looking forward to next week, I'm turning 16 next tuesday. I'm getting a lot of the Ayn Rand books, i.e. Anthem, Capitalism: The Unkown Ideal, The Fountainhead. By the way, can you recommend which one to get from We the Living, Philosohy who needs it, For the New Intellectual, Romantic Manifesto? Or should I get them all? And in which order should I read them? First complete Atlas and The Virtue, and which one next?

I'm looking forward to the moment when my family read the backcover of the books, I reckon they will be disgusted of my liberal, atheïst capitalistic ideas, haha. They will probably be cursing me. But they were going to curse me eitherway, because of my atheïst view and not being a true Christian...

P.S. Could you please correct my failures, I would like to improve my English skill.

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About the editing, okay, I can understand. I'll send a PM when one of my posts becomes to messed up.

Thanks to everyone for their welcome regards.

I'm looking forward to next week, I'm turning 16 next tuesday. I'm getting a lot of the Ayn Rand books, i.e. Anthem, Capitalism: The Unkown Ideal, The Fountainhead. By the way, can you recommend which one to get from We the Living, Philosohy who needs it, For the New Intellectual, Romantic Manifesto? Or should I get them all? And in which order should I read them? First complete Atlas and The Virtue, and which one next?

I'm looking forward to the moment when my family read the backcover of the books, I reckon they will be disgusted of my liberal, atheïst capitalistic ideas, haha. They will probably be cursing me. But they were going to curse me eitherway, because of my atheïst view and not being a true Christian...

P.S. Could you please correct my failures, I would like to improve my English skill.

Laars:

The Ayn Rand Institute offers a valuable Suggested Reading List for Ayn Rand's works. I suggest you read all of Rand's fiction first, as I have come across plot spoilers throughout her nonfiction works, and many references to the fiction that would best be understood by reading the fiction first.

The Romantic Manifesto and The Objectivist Epistemology may be the nonfiction books that you actually read last, considering in the hierarchy of philosophy, aethetics is the highest level abstraction of philosophy (others, please correct me if I phrased this awkwardly or incorrectly). The Objectivist Epistemology, as I have heard, is fairly complex and abstract, and may be difficult to read if you are not already an objective reader (I have not read the book myself, this evaluation is based on what I have been told by others).

I would suggest reading in accordance with the suggested reading list to the best of your ability. In regards to which books to purchase first, I would say, obviously, purchase all of them, as you suggested. However, under a limited budget I would suggest reading The Fountainhead, then We the Living, then Philosophy: Who Needs it.

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About the editing, okay, I can understand. I'll send a PM when one of my posts becomes to messed up.

Thanks to everyone for their welcome regards.

I'm looking forward to next week, I'm turning 16 next tuesday. I'm getting a lot of the Ayn Rand books, i.e. Anthem, Capitalism: The Unkown Ideal, The Fountainhead. By the way, can you recommend which one to get from We the Living, Philosohy who needs it, For the New Intellectual, Romantic Manifesto? Or should I get them all? And in which order should I read them? First complete Atlas and The Virtue, and which one next?

I'm looking forward to the moment when my family read the backcover of the books, I reckon they will be disgusted of my liberal, atheïst capitalistic ideas, haha. They will probably be cursing me. But they were going to curse me eitherway, because of my atheïst view and not being a true Christian...

P.S. Could you please correct my failures, I would like to improve my English skill.

Laars:

The Ayn Rand Institute offers a valuable Suggested Reading List for Ayn Rand's works. I suggest you read all of Rand's fiction first, as I have come across plot spoilers throughout her nonfiction works, and many references to the fiction that would best be understood by reading the fiction first.

The Romantic Manifesto and The Objectivist Epistemology may be the nonfiction books that you actually read last, considering in the hierarchy of philosophy, aethetics is the highest level abstraction of philosophy (others, please correct me if I phrased this awkwardly or incorrectly). The Objectivist Epistemology, as I have heard, is fairly complex and abstract, and may be difficult to read if you are not already an objective reader (I have not read the book myself, this evaluation is based on what I have been told by others).

I would suggest reading in accordance with the suggested reading list to the best of your ability. In regards to which books to purchase first, I would say, obviously, purchase all of them, as you suggested. However, under a limited budget I would suggest reading The Fountainhead, then We the Living, then Philosophy: Who Needs it.

Okay, so I'll finish Atlas Shrugged, We the Living, Anthem and The Fountainhead first, then I'll end with The Virtue and Capitalism. Good thing I've got holiday next week.

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I just ordered six more of Rand's books.

- For the New Intellectual

- The Fountainhead

- The Virtue of Selfishness (I already have this one, but this is a bigger book, the other one was rather small.

- Capitalism: The Unkown Ideal

- Anthem

- We the Living

They're being delivered next week. I'm excited.:D

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I just ordered six more of Rand's books.

- For the New Intellectual

- The Fountainhead

- The Virtue of Selfishness (I already have this one, but this is a bigger book, the other one was rather small.

- Capitalism: The Unkown Ideal

- Anthem

- We the Living

They're being delivered next week. I'm excited.:D

Congratulations and enjoy!

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I also ordered Philosophy, who needs it? Shall I read the fictional first, and then the non-fiction books?

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I also ordered Philosophy, who needs it? Shall I read the fictional first, and then the non-fiction books?

Definitely read the fiction first. And enjoy!

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