Red

Reconnecting with girl from the past

54 posts in this topic

Some of you may remember a hundred years ago I had this problem with a girl. The kind members here offered some really invaluable advice, some of which I still treasure. Now, the reason i'm starting this thread is because it's on again.

For those of you who don't remember, that's all well and good. No need to go there again. In short, what happened was that I met a woman at work. It got pretty messed up in rather foolish and embarassing ways. Seems she wasn't interested the way I was, and my advances probably bothered her somewhat(atleast that's my conclusion). Still, when I left I think we were on good terms.

During the summers i've been back with the same employer, though on different departments, so we have bumped into each other on ocassion. Two or three years ago I cut all contact. I got a bit annoyed by her actions, though not really a big deal, and besides wanted her out of my mind.

Now, once more, i've been back with same employer for the past 7 months(for the record: i'm in love with the job). Our new offices has made it so that we bump into each other rather frequently. It's been polite hello's and trying to avoid each other. Both of us uncomfortable I suppose. I've figured the ball is in her court if she wants something to do with me.

I guess you can see where i'm going with this. I think she just passed the ball.

Actually, i've noticed things earlier too, when i've thought; "well, if I didn't know better someone seems a bit jealous". I've got quite alot of women around me, and there have been times when i've had fun with someone and she's made sure to get noticed. The last time was after I had lunch with a friend, who started asking "whatever happened to that dark haired girl?". I'm pretty sure the conversation got overheard.

After that she just happens to start showing up in close proximity, which is rather unusual. Atleast I thought it kind of strange when she suddenly shows up at the other end of the table, when i'm having lunch with the same friend. Especially considering it's a lage lunch hall/cafeteria, which just happened to be scarcely populated.

So, when I had the oppurtunity I put her to the test. Greeted her one morning at the coffee machine. Just a friendly "good morning!", a little more open and friendly than usual and holding eye contact a bit longer. She answers by lighting up in the warmest smile i've ever seen. I mean, she's beaming. And, she immediatley jumps on the opportunity and starts asking how i've been and so on and so forth. The conversation is rather brief, but very friendly. I can almost swear she was blushing, but it's hard to tell with her complexion.

I contemplate this for a couple of days. Either I could wait for another opportunity and see if she follows along, or take a little initiative. I don't like waiting for the right moment, because you never know if or when it will show up. Also I don't like the idea of running head first in, trying to close the distance. Atleast not until I know where she stands.

So, I came up with and excuse to talk to her. Made up a work related question I thought would be within her area of expertise. Caught her on the run, which may have made it look a little more spontaneous than it was. She beams at me again, and acts almost like a shy girl(and I guess I was just slighly less girlish :D ).

I think she called the bluff, i'd be slightly disappointed otherwise. I mean, it's pretty hard to dodge the question, without lying, how the question came up. I was also a bit reluctant to follow along when she suggested finding someone else for help. Anyway, we did a little bit of catching up, and that was the last time we spoke. It was just a few days ago.

---

Anyhow, with all that being said... i'm thinking, what next? Right now i'm waiting to see if she passes the ball back. If not, should I just forget about the whole thing? And if she does, do you have any good advice for trying to reconnect with her?

My goal right now is just to try and spend a little more time with her, and see where it leads. A friend suggested that if it comes to that I could try bringing up things from the past we could both laugh at. And, also, consider that both of us have changed, so it would be a good idea to find out just how.

I would appreciate any kind of input, because i'm really not sure what i'm getting into here. I might add that I don't really have any high expectations, but i'm happy that things are going better. Actually, my whole life has gone so well the past weeks it almost seems unreal, though that's a different story. This is just a little icing on the cake. :)

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It sounds like you are doing everything right. You have realistic -- but optimistic -- expectations, you're moving forward slowly and carefully, and you're aware and sensitive to her reactions to you. Keep it up and see what happens.

As for your next move, see what happens in the next few days. If you get positive or no negative feedback, you might say -- or even email -- "I enjoyed running into you at ________ and _________ and would love to hear more about ___________ and __________ and talk about what's happened with __________ and ______________ since the last time I worked here. Maybe coffee or lunch some day." That's friendly, puts no pressure on her, but gives her an opening and an opportunity if she wants it. If she says OK, you each pay your own way and use it as an opportunity to communicate.

When you do have a chance to talk in a more relaxed way, in addition to gathering information, be sure to mention some things you value about her like "I hear you did a great job on ______________" or "You changed your hair. I like it better this way."

You are definitely on the right track, so good luck!

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Thank you for your encouragement and advice, Betsy! I really admire your clarity of communication, and your understanding of these matters.

Do you think it's too soon to make a move right now? I don't want to force it, it's just that there aren't many chances to meet before the hollidays. I fear it could make things a little harder if we pick where we left, if it's in two or three weeks.

Another question is wether I should e-mail or talk to her directly. Sending an e-mail would surely be easy, safe and put very little pressure on her. The easy and safe part is a bit of a problem though. She might decide not to respond on principle. On the other hand, face to face makes in more personal and puts more pressure on her. Though I am pretty confident she would follow along..

Here i'll have to add that had it been any other person I wouldn't have had much doubt at all. The conersation we had last time was rather peculiar. It wasn't much of a conversation, but if someone had seen us it must have looke like some archaic form of dance. One second theres this long distance, the next I could have just bowed my head and kissed her, then almost touching and back again whilst moving in circles. That was fun, and had it been any other girl... but I have evidently been wrong before, and that's a huge risk.

Speaking of communicating value, it's good that you mentioned her hair. She's changed to her natural hair color, and it looks amazing. I love it, so got to tell her that.

Then there's this other thing I don't quite know how to bring up in a good way. A few weeks back we had a little after-work and I meet this guy she works with. Great guy, really fun to talk to, and he seems smitten by "the new girl on his team". He tells me how this warm and sweet girl comes along, I think she just got herself a position as a lawyer there, and takes charge. She's sharp, focused, disciplined and holds her own against much older and more experienced people.

When I worked with her I often tried to push her to take more space. I knew she was sharp but some of the old fools only thought of her as a pretty face, reluctant to reconsider their old lazy ways of doing things. She compensated by working harder than anyone else. It actually took a little while to convince her that the seconds she saved by running, yes running, to the bathroom wasn't really worth the additional stress.

I was just so happy when I heard of her success. I know there's been years moving forward one little inch at a time, with a tireless focus and discipline. And now she's in her element.

The problem is it could get a little gossipy telling her that. I mean, I don't want to put the other guy on the spot. Sure, what he said was nice and innocent enough, but it's for him to tell her that if he wishes. And she'll probably figure it out even if I don't tell her who.

I think i'll have to sleep on that for a while. :)

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I don't understand why you can't just tell her you like her and ask her to share a coffee. Something like, "I keep telling myself to take a moment to talk more to you, you come across as so interesting. Care to share a coffee?"

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Of course I can ask her to join me for coffee or lunch, that in itself isn't a problem. I just want to keep it friendly and not put any pressure on her. I don't want her to take it as me asking her out, but just a friendly chat to catch up.

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Sending an e-mail would surely be easy, safe and put very little pressure on her. The easy and safe part is a bit of a problem though. She might decide not to respond on principle.

If she is interested, she will. And she will be grateful you gave her an opening to do so.

Speaking of communicating value, it's good that you mentioned her hair. She's changed to her natural hair color, and it looks amazing. I love it, so got to tell her that.

Definitely!

Then there's this other thing I don't quite know how to bring up in a good way. A few weeks back we had a little after-work and I meet this guy she works with. Great guy, really fun to talk to, and he seems smitten by "the new girl on his team".

Irrelevant. This is between you and her, so don't mention him at all.

I think she just got herself a position as a lawyer there, and takes charge.

Ask her about her position and what she is doing.

She's sharp, focused, disciplined and holds her own against much older and more experienced people.

Be sure to mention how much you value sharp, focused, disciplined people and why.

I was just so happy when I heard of her success. I know there's been years moving forward one little inch at a time, with a tireless focus and discipline. And now she's in her element.

Tell her this too. In general, communicate in "I messages." "I like your new hair color." "I've always admired sharp, focused people." "I was just so happy when I heard of your success." Etc. It's honest, indisputable, and tells her that you see her and why you value her. If she accepts it or likes it, that's your cue to move in a little closer.

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Thanks!

I actually talked to her again today. I don't think it went as well as expected:

"Hey... missed me much?" (that always made her laugh, so it seemed like a good way to greet her)

"*laughs* ye... um... hey, what are you up to now?"

"Nothing much. I just really enjoyed talking to you last time, so thought it would be nice to go grab a coffee sometime"

"No, I can't. I'm too busy for that."

"Oh, okay, well... I just wanted to catch up with you and talk for a bit"

"Well, we see each other all the time, we can always talk like this..."

"Sure... you like it here?"

I'd take that response as not intrested, at all. On the other hand, we did actually talk for a bit. She seemed to enjoy it too. I asked her about her new position and what she was doing. I told her I knew how much work she put into it and that I was really happy for her. She asked me about how I liked my job and showed me a nice christmas card she had found. Something I said made her face go completely red, and she was laughing alot. I must be funny.

Anyhow, "too busy" in my book means "thanks, but no thanks". So apparently I was mistaken. And confused. I thought I was much better at reading these situations. My approach could have been better though, my head did not quite follow along there at the beginning. I also remembered something she said earlier, which seemed like an invitation to come see her. That's why I chose a more direct approach.

Speaking of communication in genereal... there's this other lady at work. Amazing woman, very open and good at communicating. One thing she always does is she points it out when she sees something she likes. Always giving compliments and telling people what she values, about them or just in genereal. I think she does so very much in line with what you're suggesting. The result is that she's one of the most uplifting persons i've ever met. She's like a positive force.

One important thing i've learned from her is also how to recieve a compliment. Most people just say "thank you", which is fine. She'll let you know exactly how it was recieved. That way she can "return the favor" in a genuine way, and both are happier for it.

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I actually talked to her again today. I don't think it went as well as expected:

"Hey... missed me much?" (that always made her laugh, so it seemed like a good way to greet her)

"*laughs* ye... um... hey, what are you up to now?"

"Nothing much. I just really enjoyed talking to you last time, so thought it would be nice to go grab a coffee sometime"

"No, I can't. I'm too busy for that."

"Oh, okay, well... I just wanted to catch up with you and talk for a bit"

"Well, we see each other all the time, we can always talk like this..."

"Sure... you like it here?"

I'd take that response as not interested, at all. On the other hand, we did actually talk for a bit. She seemed to enjoy it too. I asked her about her new position and what she was doing. I told her I knew how much work she put into it and that I was really happy for her. She asked me about how I liked my job and showed me a nice christmas card she had found. Something I said made her face go completely red, and she was laughing alot. I must be funny.

Anyhow, "too busy" in my book means "thanks, but no thanks". So apparently I was mistaken.

Not necessarily. She is giving you mixed signals and it may be what I call a "Drivers Test."

Driver's Test

I have heard many men complain that a woman can be so difficult and

demanding; yet when they try to be a nice guy and give her what she

wants, the woman loses romantic interest in them. Is this because most

women are perverse creatures lacking in self-esteem who reject good men

and only like jerks who mistreat them? Not at all.

Women's apparently odd behavior is another consequence of that mental

state that is so hard for men to identify with -- feminine

vulnerability. A woman in a romantic relationship feels like a

passenger in a speeding car. To feel safe, she needs reassurance that

there is someone at the wheel and that he knows how to drive.

That's why a woman may challenge a man, make demands on him, or try to

take over. This may be blatant (Dominique's encounters with Roark up to

and including the so-called rape scene), or subtle (Dagny and Galt in

the valley when he returns from teaching a physics class), or symbolic

(the tennis match between Dagny and Francisco). Whatever the form of

the power struggle, somewhere in an emerging romantic relationship a

woman fights for control -- and is very disappointed if she gets it.

("What men?," asked Dagny sadly after her first ball. "There wasn't a

man there I couldn't squash ten of.")

It's fine for a man to be respectful and sensitive to a woman, but if he

allows her to overrule him or take charge of the relationship, he is

making a big mistake. After that, a woman may still like him -- as a

friend, buddy, or brother -- but all the romantic passion is gone. He

has flunked his "driver's test."

Copyright 1992 Betsy Speicher

The thing to do is to simply, but firmly, take charge of the situation by stating what you want in a way that makes it possible for her to refuse, but clear that is not what you want. "I'm glad you're busy, but I'm sure you can find ten minutes sometime in the next week or so. (smiling confidently) Check your schedule and I'll call you on Tuesday to follow up."

If she relents, it was a test. If she resists, then it is a rejection. Just shrug, smile, and say "Too bad."

Speaking of communication in genereal... there's this other lady at work. Amazing woman, very open and good at communicating. One thing she always does is she points it out when she sees something she likes. Always giving compliments and telling people what she values, about them or just in genereal. I think she does so very much in line with what you're suggesting. The result is that she's one of the most uplifting persons i've ever met. She's like a positive force.

One important thing i've learned from her is also how to recieve a compliment. Most people just say "thank you", which is fine. She'll let you know exactly how it was recieved. That way she can "return the favor" in a genuine way, and both are happier for it.

That's good. Is she single?

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Not necessarily. She is giving you mixed signals and it may be what I call a "Drivers Test."

The thing to do is to simply, but firmly, take charge of the situation by stating what you want in a way that makes it possible for her to refuse, but clear that is not what you want. "I'm glad you're busy, but I'm sure you can find ten minutes sometime in the next week or so. (smiling confidently) Check your schedule and I'll call you on Tuesday to follow up."

If she relents, it was a test. If she resists, then it is a rejection. Just shrug, smile, and say "Too bad."

Interesting. The thought occured to me afterwards, but I brushed it off a little too quickly I think. It is a rather typical test, isn't it?

Judging by past experiences I think what will happen next, unless I do something, is that she'll avoid me for a while and then be on again. Normally I would assume there's some sort of interest, but since things have gotten a little messed up with her i'm not as confident. Perhaps I should re-evaluate that and change my assumptions.

What do you think about striking up a conversation the next chance I get, chat for a while and then break it off with a little hint that since she's busy maybe she should re-schedule if she wants to spend more time with me. I could also add a suggestion like "i'm having a break at 2:00AM, i'd like you to join me then". Or following your suggestion, that i'll check up on it later.

That's good. Is she single?

No, she's happily married. We just share a mutual admiration, and both of us are happy with that.

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Interesting. The thought occured to me afterwards, but I brushed it off a little too quickly I think. It is a rather typical test, isn't it?

Oh yes. It is a normal, almost always subconscious, reaction a woman has to the mixed feelings of being attracted but fearing involvement.

What do you think about striking up a conversation the next chance I get, chat for a while and then break it off with a little hint that since she's busy maybe she should re-schedule if she wants to spend more time with me. I could also add a suggestion like "i'm having a break at 2:00AM, i'd like you to join me then". Or following your suggestion, that i'll check up on it later.

Sounds good. A good, confident, masculine, take-charge premise is: I don't play games. This is what I want and your only choice is to take it or leave it.

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Oh yes. It is a normal, almost always subconscious, reaction a woman has to the mixed feelings of being attracted but fearing involvement.

I suppose that could also explain her initial reaction. Since our previous encounters had been very friendly I expected a positive response when I showed up. Considering I probably took her by surprise and cut pretty straight to the chase, her shields must have gone up immediately.I should have considered that before. Instead I was surprised, and dissappointed. I lost my footing there for a moment. When I had regained my composure and kept the conversation going her demeanor changed completely.Oh well, if it was actually a test I should be able to recover from it.Considering it's a subconcious reaction, i'm curious about what you think these test can reveal about a womans character. I know some men just shrug it off as being a test they'll have to pass, and then move on as if nothing happened. I'm the opposite of that. I lose interest very quickly if I find the behavior unacceptable. For instance, childish behavior or being really rude and nasty. I think it shows poor character. On the other hand, subconcious reactions are difficult to control(though, thankfully, that doesn't mean I should put up with it).

Sounds good. A good, confident, masculine, take-charge premise is: I don't play games. This is what I want and your only choice is to take it or leave it.

I like that. And of course, this is a very clear "take it or leave it" situation. She'll have to invest. And if she doesn't find it worth it, then that's just the way it is. The good thing is she knows I walked away the last time, and she was the one sending the first invitation. :)

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Considering it's a subconcious reaction, i'm curious about what you think these test can reveal about a womans character.

For a feminine woman, it is usually a sign of high self-esteem. A woman who is in control of herself and her choices is very wary of giving up that control to someone else. Also, the more she thinks of herself, the more she has at stake. In a romantic relationship a woman gives her mind and body to a man, and before she can do that, she has to really admire and trust him.

What happens is that (1) she's interested, (2) she wants to know more about him so she acts to attract him and get closer, (3) getting close is scary, (4) she withdraws and tests him with controlling and distancing behaviors to see how he reacts.

I know some men just shrug it off as being a test they'll have to pass, and then move on as if nothing happened. I'm the opposite of that. I lose interest very quickly if I find the behavior unacceptable. For instance, childish behavior or being really rude and nasty. I think it shows poor character. On the other hand, subconcious reactions are difficult to control(though, thankfully, that doesn't mean I should put up with it).

A "driver's test" is not childish, rude, or nasty. A mature, rational, woman of good character is hard to get and needs to make sure a man has the strength and confidence to deal with her -- so she has to test him. Think Dominique and Roark or the Dagny-Francisco tennis match.

The good thing is she knows I walked away the last time, and she was the one sending the first invitation. :)

That's a very good sign.

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Red:

This girl has zero romantic interest in you, and is playing with you because she knows you like her.

In short, what happened was that I met a woman at work. It got pretty messed up in rather foolish and embarassing ways. Seems she wasn't interested the way I was, and my advances probably bothered her somewhat(atleast that's my conclusion).

So somehow, in the interim, she might have grown romantic feelings for you? Your ego no doubt would like to believe this, but it doesn't make sense.

"I just really enjoyed talking to you last time, so thought it would be nice to go grab a coffee sometime"

"No, I can't. I'm too busy for that."

I'd take that response as not intrested, at all.

You are 100% correct. You gave her an open opportunity to take the relationship to the next level, and she said no.

Women who like a guy (and are sane and unattached) do not do this. Romantic love is too important a value in a woman's life.

Since you're a respectful, non-pushy gentleman, you have no choice but to never bring it up again.

On the other hand, we did actually talk for a bit. She seemed to enjoy it too. . . . Something I said made her face go completely red, and she was laughing alot. I must be funny.

You should have walked away. Now your ego rationalizes: She turned me down when I asked her for a date. But on the other hand, she laughs at my jokes. Maybe I still have a chance with her…

You did the right thing before, to shut off all contact.

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So somehow, in the interim, she might have grown romantic feelings for you? Your ego no doubt would like to believe this, but it doesn't make sense.

No, not quite. She has, in the past, held up a blinking neon sign reading "take me!". I happened to be very illiterate at the time though, and dropped the ball. There's actually alot om compelling evidence for both sides. Also, i'm not assuming she's romantically interested. The way i've read the situation is that she seemed interested in taking up contact, and she acts like she's attracted. However, I could certainly be misreading things and have to bear the shame of looking like a fool.

The way I see it though is that what's really relevant is what's happening now. I can speculate endlessly about what's been and try to read her mind to no avail, but i'll act on what's happening right now.

You are 100% correct. You gave her an open opportunity to take the relationship to the next level, and she said no.

Women who like a guy (and are sane and unattached) do not do this. Romantic love is too important a value in a woman's life.

Since you're a respectful, non-pushy gentleman, you have no choice but to never bring it up again.

I don't agree with this. The only women i've met where I haven't encountered any resistance are the ones who are just fawning over you. But then, i'm not intrested so I don't pursue it further. Otherwise, there's always resistance. The problem is telling the difference between a rejection and a test.

Of course I wan't to be respectfull and non-pushy. Which is why i'll make my position clear, in a friendly and respectfull manner.

You should have walked away. Now your ego rationalizes: She turned me down when I asked her for a date. But on the other hand, she laughs at my jokes. Maybe I still have a chance with her…

You did the right thing before, to shut off all contact.

The point was that her whole demeanor changed, from cold and dismissive to fun and charming. I consider that to be common when women put up defenses and you persist. I can give you an example:

I approached a woman at a resturaunt. Just a friendly how do you do. She looked cold and replied: "Forget it, you're too short for me".

I was of course perplexed by how a woman of shorter stature could turn down a man of perfect height, so I took a chair and stood on it: "Problem solved. Let's talk. I'm Red".

Later we went out on a date. We played pool and had dinner. It was nice, but she wasn't the one.

If a woman turns me down I try to counter with a little charm. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it don't. And that's what I tried here.

I'm not saying I was awesome and charming enough here. I don't know that. But she did enjoy my company for a while, and maybe it accounts for something. Now then, isn't it best to find out - in a friendly and respectful manner?

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I disagree with what Kevin wrote because sometimes a woman is manipulative and playing games and sometimes she has very high standards, is really hard to get, and tests men to make sure that they are worthy.

I know I gave men a really hard time when I was dating, including my late husband Stephen. Fortunately, he had what it takes to overcome my resistance. ;) Now that I am dating again, I haven't lowered my standards one bit. Another example I read about recently was in Randy Pausch's book The Last Lecture. When he was courting the woman who became his wife and the mother of his children, she resisted him so strongly he called her a "Brick Wall." Proceeding on the idea that brick walls exist to be scaled, he persisted and won her.

Or as Ayn Rand put it: "Man is the conqueror. Woman is something that needs to be conquered."

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I could certainly be misreading things and have to bear the shame of looking like a fool.

Insist on clearcut, straightforward and drama-free dealings at all times with the opposite sex, and you won't have reason to feel ashamed, nor will you risk appearing foolish.

There's actually alot om compelling evidence for both sides.

Your ego searches for "counter-evidence" — and finds it. Anything to fan the flames of hope.

he seemed interested in taking up contact, and she acts like she's attracted.

Like the time she turned you down for a coffee date?

Would she have told her favorite male movie star she was "too busy" to grab a latte with him after work?

I can speculate endlessly about what's been and try to read her mind to no avail, but i'll act on what's happening right now.

It's not necessarily a bad thing to try to read a person's mind — if by this you mean to guess at what they might be thinking and/or feeling.

What's very wrong, and is completely unacceptable, is any attempt to psychoanalyze another human being.

You're not Sigmund Freud. Forget about rationalizing & trying to make sense of another person's actions by reference to (alleged) psychological factors.

[H]er whole demeanor changed, from cold and dismissive to fun and charming.

One wonders what a woman would have to do to make you say: "She's nuts. I ought to avoid her…"

I approached a woman at a resturaunt. Just a friendly how do you do. She looked cold and replied: "Forget it, you're too short for me".

Later we went out on a date. We played pool and had dinner.

Who paid for dinner?

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[A]s Ayn Rand put it: "Man is the conqueror. Woman is something that needs to be conquered."

Man is the conqueror — symbolically and in the bedroom.

If I ask a woman out for coffee and she says no, I respect her time and my own, and I don't pursue things further.

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[A]s Ayn Rand put it: "Man is the conqueror. Woman is something that needs to be conquered."

Man is the conqueror — symbolically and in the bedroom.

If I ask a woman out for coffee and she says no, I respect her time and my own, and I don't pursue things further.

There's a natural dance involved when healthy men and women interact. And while "maybe" and the like mean "No" far more often than today, the "test drive" is a fact of reality. Vive la différence!

(Mrs RGT was saddened during her last visit to Rome. It seems that men and women there are adopting our cleansed attitude on interactions with members of the opposite sex we're either interested in or whose presence we enjoy: no more following the woman around for a couple of blocks and showering her with soft spoken, well thought out complements; no more flowers on her doorstep the next day; no more little gifts that more or less force the woman to stop, acknowledge the man's existence and talk to him for a few seconds. Mrs RGT felt about as "ignored" as she feels in NYC. Given the glories of Italian culture to date, that may be an ominous development. Maybe in Paris . . .)

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What's very wrong, and is completely unacceptable, is any attempt to psychoanalyze another human being.

You're not Sigmund Freud. Forget about rationalizing & trying to make sense of another person's actions by reference to (alleged) psychological factors.

And you are?

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Insist on clearcut, straightforward and drama-free dealings at all times with the opposite sex, and you won't have reason to feel ashamed, nor will you risk appearing foolish.

Sure, that comment seems a bit like a non sequitur though.

Your ego searches for "counter-evidence" — and finds it. Anything to fan the flames of hope.

Stop making assumptions about the inner workings of my mind. It's offensive and not well received.

You're simply missing the point. There have been tons of mixed messages. Moments where I could, and should, have taken what I wanted, and moments where things have not gone so well. Those are facts, irregardless of if I feel hope or despair. I'm not going to elaborate on the details though, it's too personal.

<p>

Insist on clearcut, straightforward and drama-free dealings at all times with the opposite sex, and you won't have reason to feel ashamed, nor will you risk appearing foolish.

Sure, that comment seems a bit like a non sequitur though.

Your ego searches for "counter-evidence" — and finds it. Anything to fan the flames of hope.

Stop making assumptions about the inner workings of my mind. It's offensive and not well received.

You're simply missing the point. There have been tons of mixed messages. Moments where I could, and should, have taken what I wanted, and moments where things have not gone so well. Those are facts, irregardless of if I feel hope or despair. I'm not going to elaborate on the details though, it's too personal.

Like the time she turned you down for a coffee date?

No, like the moments leading up to that.

Would she have told her favorite male movie star she was "too busy" to grab a latte with him after work?

I don't know, but I hope I've at least taught her how wrong it is to mix milk with coffee. I've seen a few very handsome and confident men fail though. I only care how she responds to me.

It's not necessarily a bad thing to try to read a person's mind — if by this you mean to guess at what they might be thinking and/or feeling.

What's very wrong, and is completely unacceptable, is any attempt to psychoanalyze another human being.

You're not Sigmund Freud. Forget about rationalizing & trying to make sense of another person's actions by reference to (alleged) psychological factors.

True, but when there are mixed messages and not enough facts you'll only be going around in circles.

The "driver's test" was mentioned as a possibility. Only way to know is to try it against reality.

One wonders what a woman would have to do to make you say: "She's nuts. I ought to avoid her…"

When she dresses in rags, has more than ten cats and finds profound meaning in modern art? Seriously though, if things go wrong here it's because of me. I don't blame others for my inability. I'll take it as a man, without mercy, and move on. She's certainly not nuts.

Who paid for dinner?

I make sure to pay when I take a woman out to dinner.

---

I was preparing a reply to Betsy too, but i'm afraid I need a little sleep before going to work.

Like the time she turned you down for a coffee date?

No, like the moments leading up to that.

Would she have told her favorite male movie star she was "too busy" to grab a latte with him after work?

I don't know, but I hope I've at least taught her how wrong it is to mix milk with coffee. I've seen a few very handsome and confident men fail though. I only care how she responds to me.

It's not necessarily a bad thing to try to read a person's mind — if by this you mean to guess at what they might be thinking and/or feeling.

What's very wrong, and is completely unacceptable, is any attempt to psychoanalyze another human being.

You're not Sigmund Freud. Forget about rationalizing & trying to make sense of another person's actions by reference to (alleged) psychological factors.

True, but when there are mixed messages and not enough facts you'll only be going around in circles.The "driver's test" was mentioned as a possibility. Only way to know is to try it against reality.

One wonders what a woman would have to do to make you say: "She's nuts. I ought to avoid her…"

When she dresses in rags, has more than ten cats and finds profound meaning in modern art? Seriously though, if things go wrong here it's because of me. I don't blame others for my inability. I'll take it as a man, without mercy, and move on. She's certainly not nuts.

Who paid for dinner?

I make sure to pay when I take a woman out to dinner.

---

I was preparing a reply to Betsy too, but i'm afraid I need a little sleep before going to work.</p>

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Stop making assumptions about the inner workings of my mind. It's offensive and not well received.

Do I get a free dinner?

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Sorry about the previous post. Looked fine when I previewed it, but apparently my text has decided to breed. I hope it doesn't persist.

Anyway, I told her today, after she acted a bit weird, that I was under the impression that she wanted to take up contact again. Either way, I made it clear that's what I wanted and that my offer still stands. So gave her the choice of finding some time or telling me to go to... in which case i'll stay away and never bring it up again.

She answered that she liked me and thought I was good guy, but blabla... not interested and not single. I told her I liked her very much too and wasn't suggesting a date, but a coffee at work and that i'm simply not going to invest in someone who's not willing to give me 10 minutes of her time.

It was a lot friendlier than I make it seem here, i'm just giving you the essence of it. I think it ended on good terms, and of course I gave her my best wishes. Only thing that annoyed me a bit was that she gave nonsense reasons for reinitiating contact, but that doesn't really matter now.

Stop making assumptions about the inner workings of my mind. It's offensive and not well received.

Do I get a free dinner?

Sorry, I don't date men.

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She is 'not interested and not single'? Why do you want 10 minutes of her time then?

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She is 'not interested and not single'? Why do you want 10 minutes of her time then?

I would have enjoyed her company also for non-romantic reasons, and one reason for wanting to reconnect with her has been to find out exactly how far my interest really goes. However, there's also a bit of subtext that could explain my response a little better. The translation is something along the lines of:

"I was just trying to be nice"

"Balderdash!"

"You're a nice guy"

"No, i'm not"

She was trying to sell me her version of reality, and I wasn't buying. I'm not the guy sitting alone in a corner with sad puppy eyes hoping for her kindness. She would have found that laughable. Also, her behavior contradicts that. I answered in kind.

Now, of course, I accept the "not interested" part. It is what it is. Moving on.

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