JRoberts

Israel

21 posts in this topic

It seems that Israel's newest Prime Minister is finally taking some proper, moral action. After the attacks on Palestine due to the capture of Israeli soldiers, Israel is now launching an offensive against Lebanon (for the same reasons).

Israeli Security Cabinet Minister Isaac Herzog said: "We are taking strong measures so that it will be clear to the Lebanese people and government ... that we mean business."
Israel's Cabinet authorized a "severe and harsh" response to the abduction of two soldiers, named Thursday as Ehud Goldvasser, 31, from Nahariya, and Eldad Regev, 26, from the Haifa suburb of Kiryat Motzkin.
Earlier Thursday Israel's warplanes bombed Beirut's international airport for the first time and its navy began a blockade of Lebanon's ports.
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert called the attacks and abductions an "act of war" and blamed the Lebanese government, which he said would be held responsible for the two soldiers' safe release.

-CNN.com

President Bush said Thursday that Israel has the right to defend itself, as it launched fresh attacks on Lebanon after the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers.

Bush laid the blame for the escalation of violence along the border on Hezbollah, whose guerrillas mounted a cross-border raid earlier in the week and captured the two soldiers. He also said that Syria "needs to be held to account" for supporting and harboring Hezbollah.

"The soldiers need to be returned," the president said. "It's really sad where people are willing to take innocent life in order to stop that progress (for peace). As a matter of fact, it's pathetic."

-Foxnews.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems that Israel's newest Prime Minister is finally taking some proper, moral action. After the attacks on Palestine due to the capture of Israeli soldiers, Israel is now launching an offensive against Lebanon (for the same reasons).

All of it is so long overdue. The impression I get is that the soldier's abduction was a final straw that broke through the rationalizing and placating of Washington and the Left everywhere. But they had grounds this many decades ago.

Returning the soldiers shouldn't make a speck of difference about these operations. Israel should finish this job and kill every damned one of the Palistinean terrorists and their allies - but unfortunately it is unlikely to go that far. I predict that in short order, Washington will begin to bleat that they're using too much force, the U.N. will offer up resolutions against them, and once again they'll back away long before the job is done, leaving the infection to fester and grow again.

But, maybe not - maybe they've really had it this time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They have the right talk to finish the job, just hoping they maintain it.

Daniel Ayalon, the Israeli ambassador to the United States, said the Haifa attack was "a major, major escalation."

"It goes to show that there is no timetable," Ayalon said during a speech in Washington. "We will have to continue with the operation until there is no capability of the Hezbollah to do what they are doing."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too am happy to see Israel take it to these people.

Btw, since the Hezbollah is behind the kidnappings, isn't it safe to assume Iran is at fault, too? IIRC, Iran finances the Hezbollah. If so, this could lead to something bigger involving the U.S. Let's hope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PhilO you were right about the UN resolution, but fortunately the U.S. vetoed it. I highly reccomend checking out the BBC website - they are translating foreign news into English and I think it is very interesting to read what other countries are saying. They are also closer to the Middle East time zone and so you can get coverage when the US news agencies are not at press.

After reading their comments I am pleased this is so much more clearly an idealogical war, and not something being fought against an abstraction like "terrorism". There are many Lebanese saying that they have been caught in the crossfire - but I think Israel is doing the right thing but holding Lebanon's government responsible for allowing Hezbollah to continue operating on Lebanese soil. Unless/Until Lebanon clearly states that they plan to take complete control of their territory and allie with Israel against Hezbollah I do not think that the fighting will cease. In the case of such an alliance it would be necessary to drive south and push the Hezbollah fighters into Syria and Iran. From that point, another war would be on the hand of both Israel and Lebanon.

Israel is currently also fighting Pakistan, so they would be fighting a multi-front battle. Additionally, it is important to take note of:

-Mumbai bombings: Pakistan has *not* claimed responsibility and appears to have extended a hand to Mumbai (while I fear they will use the other to stab them in the back)

-Latest wave of violence in Sao Paulo, Brazil (the most civilized/industrialized place in S.America)

-Iran: particularly oil shortages, the U.S. policy makers know that if Iran chooses to use oil as a weapon they will get strong backing from Venezuela (2nd largest natural gas producer)

-N.Korea walkout on North/South Korea talks

-Bush speaking out on Russia's corruption

-Upcoming G8 summit

I am so proud of Israel, I feel like they are exhibiting all the behavoirs we have failed to. I do hope they hurry, before the international community gets their crap together and makes things a lot harder for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't remember where I read it, but the US claimed that both Syria and Iran must also be held responsible. If things keep going as they seem to be going, it appears that both the US will finally have an "excuse" to go to war with Iran.

Thankfully, any war is better than no war.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm glad someone started this thread. I was going to.

http://www.newsoftheday.com/

Israel deserves the full support of every friend of Western Civilization.

Thank you for posting this website! The facts on the far right are amazing :P. Your website proves why I started this thread in "The Good", not "Current Events".

I think that it is proper to praise a country that has brought so much to Western Civilization.

For example, from the website:

Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.

When the U. S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya was bombed in 1998, Israeli rescue teams were on the scene within a day - and saved three victims from the rubble.

Israel has the third highest rate of entrepreneurship - and the highest rate among women and among people over 55 - in the world.

Relative to its population, Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing nation on earth. Immigrants come in search of democracy, religious freedom, and economic opportunity.

Israel has the world's second highest per capita of new books.

Israel has more museums per capita than any other country.

Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000

Israel has the highest per capita ratio of scientific publications in the world by a large margin, as well as one of the highest per capita rates of patents filed.

In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of startup companies in the world. In absolute terms, Israel has the largest number of startup companies than any other country in the world, except the US (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).

Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers per capita.

With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and start-ups, Israel has the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world (apart from the Silicon Valley).

The cell phone was developed in Israel by Motorola-Israel. Motorola built its largest development center worldwide in Israel.

Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.

AOL's instant message program was designed by an Israeli software company.

On a per capita basis, Israel has the largest number of biotech start-ups

For such a small country...WOW :D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm glad someone started this thread. I was going to.

http://www.newsoftheday.com/

Israel deserves the full support of every friend of Western Civilization.

With news like this I can put away my "Dirty Harry" fix for a while. It's been a while since Entebbe, but "Never Again" is back in focus. I really admire them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did not know where to post this question so I put it here. I know we ought to be supporting Israel but should we be supporting it with taxation which is forced upon us or as through a voluntary charity donation? Our Constitution doesn't have any provisions in it about supplying foreign aid, yet we as taxpayers shell out Billions of dollars a year to countries to keep them from fighting. MY question is how did, or where did Ayn Rand state in her writings about supporting Israel?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I did not know where to post this question so I put it here. I know we ought to be supporting Israel but should we be supporting it with taxation which is forced upon us or as through a voluntary charity donation? Our Constitution doesn't have any provisions in it about supplying foreign aid, yet we as taxpayers shell out Billions of dollars a year to countries to keep them from fighting. MY question is how did, or where did Ayn Rand state in her writings about supporting Israel?
The purpose of this new isolationism is to play on the American people's legitimate weariness, confusion and anger over Vietnam, in the hope of making the U.S. government afraid to become involved in another foreign war of any kind. This would paralyze the U.S. in the conduct of any foreign policy not agreeable <arl_365> to Soviet Russia. The first intended victim of the new isolationism will probably be Israel—if the "anti-war" efforts of the new isolationists succeed. (Israel and Taiwan are the two countries that need and deserve U.S. help—not in the name of international altruism, but by reason of actual U.S. national interests in the Mediterranean and the Pacific.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I know we ought to be supporting Israel but should we be supporting it with taxation which is forced upon us or as through a voluntary charity donation?

As Ayn Rand indicated, we have common (self-)interests with Israel. As she said on the Johnny Carson Show (from memory) we are on the same side as Israel in the battle of Western Civilization vs. barbarism. We should be cooperating. One thing we could do to help Israel and ourselves -- and it would cost almost nothing -- would be to share military intelligence and technology with each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I know we ought to be supporting Israel but should we be supporting it with taxation which is forced upon us or as through a voluntary charity donation?

As Ayn Rand indicated, we have common (self-)interests with Israel. As she said on the Johnny Carson Show (from memory) we are on the same side as Israel in the battle of Western Civilization vs. barbarism. We should be cooperating. One thing we could do to help Israel and ourselves -- and it would cost almost nothing -- would be to share military intelligence and technology with each other.

That was in the 1960s ... that's how long Israel has been dealing with this. What a glorious tribute to altruism this protracted conflict has been.

In an egoistic world the enemy is dealt with once decisively and it's over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't remember where I read it, but the US claimed that both Syria and Iran must also be held responsible. If things keep going as they seem to be going, it appears that both the US will finally have an "excuse" to go to war with Iran.

Thankfully, any war is better than no war.

Setting aside the morality of the action for a moment, have you considered the practicality of such an action?

First off, where would you get the assault troops as you may find the current middle eastern adventures tend to be somewhat troop hungry. It's quite literally a case of "you and who's army?" Thinking about re-instituting the draft? Second, the Iranian armed forces, whilst no match for the USA are way more formidable than the Iraqis were, they could cause a lot of trouble in a guerilla type war. Third, lets assume its quite possible to turn Tehran into a tank park in a few weeks, then what? Maybe the populace would welcome the destruction of the regime (some certainly would) others may not, you could certainly project prolonged conflict. And you could bet the Syrians would want to back some faction or other, so current Iraq scenarios could be nicely expanded involving more money, death and confusion with no obvious exit strategy. In the event of imminent regime destruction, the Iranians must fire any and all of their missiles at Tel Aviv, and who knows what nasties could be loaded up? Gas, Chemicals, Germs? And you know the Israelis shoot back with nukes if this happens. To put it mildly, that may have wider consequences.

The thing holding back GWB is not the want of a reason, its the knowledge of the realities and the Iranians know it. The sabber rattling is an empty threat, at least in a conventional ground invasion sense.

Not to say nothing could be done. Take out a few second ranking officials of the Baseej (spelling) or guardian council one night with cruise missile hits, and it would wonderfully concentrate the minds of those who advocate (but never engage in) martyrdom missions. The lesson being "Do as we say, or die"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't remember where I read it, but the US claimed that both Syria and Iran must also be held responsible. If things keep going as they seem to be going, it appears that both the US will finally have an "excuse" to go to war with Iran.

Thankfully, any war is better than no war.

Setting aside the morality of the action for a moment, have you considered the practicality of such an action?

First off, where would you get the assault troops as you may find the current middle eastern adventures tend to be somewhat troop hungry.

We've got plenty of troops in the area. We can take the men in Iraq and line them up on the Iraq-Iran border. We should have done so long ago considering that's where the greatest threats to our soldiers in Iraq have been coming from. We can also put most of the troops in Afghanistan on the Afghanistan-Iran border and we have ships in the Persian Gulf.

But the answer to conquering Iran isn't assault troops. A few strategic strikes on key facilities like their only oil refinery or key people like Ahmadinejad and the head mullahs, or just credible threats of that, might be sufficient. There is enough opposition to the regime in Iran itself that, given any weakening in the regime and knowledge we will back them up militarily, the Iranians themselves might do the job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stussy88 - you mentioned you're married to a woman from Iran, so I was wondering if you knew roughly what percentage of Iranians are English-speaking?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stussy88 - you mentioned you're married to a woman from Iran, so I was wondering if you knew roughly what percentage of Iranians are English-speaking?

This would only be speculation on my part, and my experience may well be skewed by meeting members of the urban middle classes, but all of 'em more or less. Every last one I met could speak English to some degree, (subject to me earlier caveat). Many were pretty much fluent.

The reasons for this are many, but two substantial reasons are the fact that the internet is mostly English and the rise of satellite TV and the American domination of popular TV culture. Would you believe the most popular show when I was there was "Baywatch" and most favoured Sports team ~ Chelsea. It was quite surreal. Outside it was all pictures of mullahs and veils. Inside it was all mini-skirts make up and booze. This one guy had gone so far as to construct a nightclub in the basement of his substantial home with full on bar and light/sound system. I can honestly say I was more drunk in Iran than any other country, as they are yet to master portion control. Try half-pints of red wine for a round :wacko: The only down-side was no drink driving laws (as theoretically at least, no drinking, so the roads get a bit dodgy after 10pm.

These guys hate their leaders with a passion, and hits on the leadership might well enjoy slightly furtive support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I totally agree with Betsy. If we moved some of our submarines (if they are not already there) and other naval ships close enough, as well as our carriers with our airplanes, to bomb the strategic points in Iran, and if we send in special ops teams to assassinate the leaders of the Iranian government, the ensuing chaos, the destruction of any ability to really strike back, and the potential uprising (which of course would be supported by US military personnel) would be enough to take down Iran. If we had a President with balls, we'd also threaten the other Muslim countries not to take action...because our nukes are pointed at Mecca and Medina. I do not think the Muslim world would be happy if we nuked Mecca and built a Victoria's Secret over their holy sites.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I do not think the Muslim world would be happy if we nuked Mecca and built a Victoria's Secret over their holy sites.

:wacko: This line has made my day. Thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I do not think the Muslim world would be happy if we nuked Mecca and built a Victoria's Secret over their holy sites.

And it would definitely be the "hottest" Victoria's Secret ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I do not think the Muslim world would be happy if we nuked Mecca and built a Victoria's Secret over their holy sites.

And it would definitely be the "hottest" Victoria's Secret ever.

Absolutely glowing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites