Windows Vista and a new computer

[Stephen Speicher 0]

I have been holding off buying a new computer until the new Windows Vista system comes out early next year. My thinking was that it would be easiest to get a new computer with Vista installed, and then transfer over whatever I need from my current Windows XP Media Center Edition computer. But now I am wondering if this is true. Would it be easier to get a new computer now, one having the same XP Media Center I am using, and just upgrading that computer to Vista when it comes out?

[Ed from OC 0]

FWIW from a Mac user, you may not want to buy Vista as soon as it comes out. Windows has a history of initial releases with bugs that don't get hammered out for quite some time. Heck, Windows 98 required Service Pack 2 to get fairly reliable and bug-free (though I'm sure some will dispute that claim).

I personally don't upgrade hardware and software that often, as my usage doesn't require it.* I take it you are upgrading for faster processing for some demanding application? I don't know of a must-have feature of Vista that would justify waiting for the OS (though I believe most of what Vista can do my Mac's been doing since I bought it last year). Are there features of Vista that justify it for you?

I guess it comes down to which is more important: getting faster processing ASAP, or concern over porting elements from a new XP machine to Vista.

*That said, my Mac OS automatically checks for software updates and seamlessly downloads, installs, and reboots in all of maybe 5 minutes. And they run without problems: I just realized that a year later, I've never had a crash, or a spyware/virus issue. I'm so glad I don't have to spend time worrying about those issues.

[ewv 0]

I have been holding off buying a new computer until the new Windows Vista system comes out early next year. My thinking was that it would be easiest to get a new computer with Vista installed, and then transfer over whatever I need from my current Windows XP Media Center Edition computer. But now I am wondering if this is true. Would it be easier to get a new computer now, one having the same XP Media Center I am using, and just upgrading that computer to Vista when it comes out?

Get it now if you need it, otherwise the hardware will be better later, too. If you don't really need it, you might as well wait.

Either way most of the work in switching will be re-installing and configuring your applications. If you buy now, upgrading to the new OS later would be a simple, though a little time-consuming, upgrade process plus an additional cost to upgrade to the new OS (which would otherwise come with the new PC -- you would pay for it either way, but if you upgrade you pay twice).

[Stephen Speicher 0]

FWIW from a Mac user you may not want to buy Vista as soon as it comes out. Windows has a history of initial releases with bugs that don't get hammered out for quite some time.

I've decided to forge ahead and take a hit if it occurs, along with millions of others. But I have a lot more confidence in Microsoft after using their system now, and I have heard a lot of optimism from those who are testing Vista.

I take it you are upgrading for faster processing for some demanding application?

I mainly want to keep up with the latest and greatest from Microsoft, the system that will replace XP as the standard.

Are there features of Vista that justify it for you?

I'm excited by what I have seen of the entire system, and in other threads KMorril and jedymastyr got me even more excited over a whole host of features.

[Stephen Speicher 0]

Get it now if you need it, otherwise the hardware will be better later, too. If you don't really need it, you might as well wait.

Well, I don't really need a new computer, but I do love new technology and I want one. But, you make a good point about the hardware being even better; I have read about some really super-duper new Intel chips that will be on the market soon.

Either way most of the work in switching will be re-installing and configuring your applications.

I was thinking that I would need a lot of new versions of applications for Vista that I currently use on XP. Am I mistaken, and will most applications running under XP also run on Vista?

[ewv 0]

Well, I don't really need a new computer, but I do love new technology and I want one. But, you make a good point about the hardware being even better; I have read about some really super-duper new Intel chips that will be on the market soon.

That counts as a need. If you can afford it and want to explore then just go ahead and do it. But if it's mainly the OS you are interested in, then that tells you to wait for the OS and not go out and buy new hardware with XP now.

I was thinking that I would need a lot of new versions of applications for Vista that I currently use on XP. Am I mistaken, and will most applications running under XP also run on Vista?

usoft is very good about backwared compatibility. That is why it took so long to get rid of the DOS-based systems (through Windows ME) and finally get everyone switched over to the NT-based line of OS. If anything you will find not that applications don't work, but that they may not take full advantage of the new OS (like the new 64bit chips).

Given that you are mainly looking for the adventure and will still have your present system, don't worry about bugs in the initial release. usoft patches and updates will come out very quickly and unlike the past, upgrading your system is very easy now -- your OS checks on the internet to see if something is available and then, if you let it, downloads it and installs it automatically.

[Stephen Speicher 0]

I was thinking that I would need a lot of new versions of applications for Vista that I currently use on XP. Am I mistaken, and will most applications running under XP also run on Vista?

usoft is very good about backwared compatibility. That is why it took so long to get rid of the DOS-based systems (through Windows ME) and finally get everyone switched over to the NT-based line of OS. If anything you will find not that applications don't work, but that they may not take full advantage of the new OS (like the new 64bit chips).

That's good to know. Thanks.

Given that you are mainly looking for the adventure and will still have your present system ...

I like that, "adventure." You found me out.

About my present system, I intended to give that away once I converted over and got things going.

[ewv 0]

I like that, "adventure." You found me out.

It didn't exactly take Columbus to discover it.

About my present system, I intended to give that away once I converted over and got things going.

It's good to have an emergency backup system in case of disaster. Don't overdo the adventure thing. But if you have some other one's around the house, like the boss's you're covered if you have the needed permission and papers . You of course do regular backups.

[Jason Fowler 0]

I am running Vista public beta 2 right now and the biggest problems are driver related. I will say it is not nearly as bad as when their version of 64-bit XP was in beta. Try running the latest and greatest and being greated with a 800x600 16 color desktop. Some components that may not immediately support Vista include TV tuners, web cameras and printers. (it really depends on the manufacturer)

The OS right now is feature complete but it needs some refinements in performance, bugs, and the User Access Control service. I can't wait for the improvements that will come in the release candidate.

You mentioned the new chips from Intel, the desktop version will be called Core 2 Duo. All of their new CPUs are significantly faster than the Pentium 4s while consuming much less power. This is really an exciting time for processors because Intel is finally stepping up and getting competitive with AMD. AMD has responded by cutting their prices in half.

[Stephen Speicher 0]

Some components that may not immediately support Vista include TV tuners, web cameras and printers.

Whoa. That would be a deal-breaker for me. I wouldn't give up my XP Media Center until that capability was available under Vista.

You mentioned the new chips from Intel, the desktop version will be called Core 2 Duo. All of their new CPUs are significantly faster than the Pentium 4s while consuming much less power.

The article I read said 40% faster and 40% less power. We've come to expect regular speed increases, but that 40% drop in power is really impressive. I see that new machines come equipped with a whole array of fans, and even liquid cooling for some. This drop in power requirement will be most welcome.

[ewv 0]

Some components that may not immediately support Vista include TV tuners, web cameras and printers.

Whoa. That would be a deal-breaker for me. I wouldn't give up my XP Media Center until that capability was available under Vista.

You always have to wait for new hardware drivers; you don't expect them far in advance of the release. Any company still supporting fairly recent hardware will release their own drivers relatively quickly. This is routine.

[jedymastyr 0]

I have been holding off buying a new computer until the new Windows Vista system comes out early next year. My thinking was that it would be easiest to get a new computer with Vista installed, and then transfer over whatever I need from my current Windows XP Media Center Edition computer. But now I am wondering if this is true. Would it be easier to get a new computer now, one having the same XP Media Center I am using, and just upgrading that computer to Vista when it comes out?

This is a very good question to be asking before buying a computer.

64-bit Vista

I see a potential serious problem for buying a new computer now and upgrading it to Vista later. Do you want to be running 64-bit Vista? It sounds like you are looking into high-performance processors and so I get the impression you would really prefer 64-bit over 32-bit systems. This is a little bit confusing, I'm not sure how much you know about these issues, and store salesmen sometimes don't give you all the details.

It appears that Media Center is only released in a 32-bit version. I can't easily find this verified on the internet anywhere, but XP Pro x64 is specifically labeled and I'm not seeing any 64-bit versions to download on MSDN; also, in this list of system requirements for an important Microsoft product, Media Center is only under x32 and not x64 (unlike XP Pro and Win Server 2003 which are on both lists). This is important for a couple reasons, but most importantly: you can only upgrade to 64-bit Vista from a 64-bit version of Windows. I suppose the specs aren't all finalized and Vista isn't finished yet, but it's never been possible in the past to upgrade from 32-bit to 64-bit Windows.

So, if you buy a new Media Center with 32-bit Windows installed, you won't be able to use Vista's upgrade wizard--you'll have to perform a clean Vista install (and pay more for a full, non-upgrade version). Assuming you want to use the 64-bit Vista, you of course would need a 64-bit processor. Here is where some potential confusion arises--all 64-bit processors (or at least Intel/AMD) support 32-bit Windows. So you can have a 64-bit processor and only be utilizing 32-bits of it because you have an operating system that doesn't support all 64. Vista, of course, will have both 32 and 64-bit versions. You shouldn't have problem upgrading to 32-bit Vista.

Drivers

Another issue regarding doing the clean install of 64-bit Vista over the older 32-bit version:

Many computer manufacturers--particularly HP/Sony Media Centers--ship computers with a lot of proprietary software and drivers. For example, you'll often find DVD/CD-burning software, drivers for a potentially proprietary version of a TV tuner, a movie editor, a DVD player with mpeg2 codec, etc. In years past, these computers shipped with an original XP CD, Software CDs, and Driver CD(s). It is becoming more and more common for computer manufacturers to include no CDs/DVDs, and requiring you to make system restore disks that let you restore your computer to its original state. If you do a clean 64-bit install and get a computer like this, you may not be able to install any of the software that came with it. In addition, the drivers for specialty parts specific to your computer--including possibly the TV Tuner, extended ports on the front of your computer, etc. may not be available.

There are a couple ways to avoid this, if you take this route:

• Make sure you pay close attention to all the components of your system and make sure you can go to the manufacturer's website and download drivers for them
  
• Make sure the computer comes with the driver/application CDs/DVDs separately
  

Also, 32-bit drivers do not work on 64-bit computers. (Since drivers are OS-specific, not all XP drivers will work for Vista anyway). You should check the components and make sure the manufacturer will provide Vista drivers.

The driver issue is somewhat annoying because Vista hasn't been released yet, companies like Linksys haven't even released beta drivers, and other companies are really transparent about it and have detailed information online.

Before leaving drivers, there's one more important thing. Regarding the graphics--Vista introduces a whole new level of computer graphics experiences. If you want to experience all the new graphics--including the "glass" effect--make sure the video card you buy supports Vista's advanced graphics features. Pretty much any video card will "work" with Vista, but only specific ones will work with the new features. Fortunately, the development process has been going on a long time, and a lot of devices are supported.

nVidia supported devices

ATI supported devices

Keep in mind on that ATI site you can select different categories in the box to the left--multimedia may apply to Media Center PCs.

Graphics/Reliability/Misc

Graphics is an extremely important area to get right. With Vista something remarkable happens when you use the new graphics--your computer speeds up significantly and the graphics get better. This is because graphics cards have improved to the point where they can do complex rendering (for video games usually), and have graphics processor units (GPUs, like CPUs) on the chips that can do a lot of the work the operating system used to. While Windows is successfully expanding into new areas like Tablets, Media Centers, and Voice Recognition, it is moving out of areas that can be more efficiently served through hardware.

Also, it appears a DVD mpeg2 codec will be available in at least some versions of Vista. These must be licensed through Dolby Digital for IP reasons, so typically computer manufacturers had to buy 3rd party DVD software to bundle with their computers. WinDVD and PowerDVD are two better known ones. The details aren't all official yet, but assuming you like Media Center functionality and get Windows Ultimate you could now be able to install a new OS and have all the essential functions built-in, since Windows Media Player and Media Center provide a lot of the add-on functionality.

At home I'm dual booting to XP Media Center and 32-bit Vista. Although Linksys doesn't have wireless router drivers, if you manually install the XP one it works. I assume there's a similar workaround for my TV Tuner, but I haven't spent time on it yet. That's why I'm dual booting--new drivers for old devices, particularly those sold in OEM packages not to the public, can take a while to come out! If you buy a new Vista machine, the manufacturer won't be able to sell it without making all the hardware work. This is in my opinion the best benefit in buying the computer after Vista is released. Still, with a little effort even in Beta you can get most things to work. I'm currently running multiple monitors with a wireless internet adapter, smartcard reader, and all the standard dvd/cd/hard drive stuff works like normal.

At work I'm running Vista as well. My computer hasn't restarted in over a week, and I've had a great experience with it. No freezes. I've had a few minor hangs on the new Office betas, but for the most part that's all working together well too. There will probably be a few problems for the avant-garde, but there shouldn't be anything insurmountable. Also note that after Vista RTM is completed sometime late this year, there will still be a couple months to discover any major bugs that were overlooked and make automatic updates to fix them.

I was thinking that I would need a lot of new versions of applications for Vista that I currently use on XP. Am I mistaken, and will most applications running under XP also run on Vista?

I recently dug up a computer game that was my favorite when it came out. Test Drive the original, from before they started numbering them. It was the first game I played after 8 color VGA adapters came out, and I opened it from DOS. I got the game, put all the files in a directory on my hard drive, and double clicked the .exe....and it worked! I didn't have an old serial-port gamepad (or the old-fashioned serial port on my computer), so I had to use the relatively clumsy keyboard controls, but that seems like an amazing thing to me. One of Windows' greatest virtues--and perhaps the main reasons it has come to be so widely used--is that it maintains unparalleled backward compatibility. Unlike Apple which changes system calls for every operating system release, Microsoft expands the previous functionality but supports the old. Not that there's no market for one-OS-only programs, but it's a major selling point.

As a side note, when I was playing Test Drive I quickly realized that the game didn't support the usual audio. My motherboard emitted quite a few beep tones I haven't heard in years, though!

In other words, I would be surprised if any XP programs didn't work on Vista. If you have programs specific to a particular operating system--like TweakXP or something of that variety--it might not work. Programs that hack into the deep levels of the OS that are not using the published APIs may not work (anti-virus programs?--they'll probably be easily updatable though). Pretty much all your normal applications should work, though.

The article I read said 40% faster and 40% less power. We've come to expect regular speed increases, but that 40% drop in power is really impressive. I see that new machines come equipped with a whole array of fans, and even liquid cooling for some. This drop in power requirement will be most welcome.

This may not be as surprising as it sounds. A lot of the less power comes from the new shutdown mechanisms, which should allow your computer to essentially be shut down and almost immediately become responsive again upon a mouse click or keypress. I don't know how much power would be saved if you were active on your computer all the time, but it's still pretty impressive.

Well, I don't really need a new computer, but I do love new technology and I want one. But, you make a good point about the hardware being even better; I have read about some really super-duper new Intel chips that will be on the market soon.

I love that attitude! In case you don't know it, you can currently download Office 2007 Beta and (if you're really adventurous) Internet Explorer 7. IE7 has a few annoying bugs I've noticed after extensive use, but most things are fine. I'm more excited about Office 2007--although I'd still recommend installing it as a new version rather than upgrading your current Office installation. In case you encounter some bug that doesn't allow you to do something you need to, you can switch back to your other installation, which is impossible if you upgrade the old one. As betas neither are bug free, of course, and if you're doing something that requires reliability they aren't really useful.

If you use Outlook from the new Office, you can format tables and use a lot of Word features right inside the email editor! I believe they're starting up an actual Word engine in the background rather than just providing a small subset of the functionality. The table formatting is amazing, the graphs have more options, and Excel allows you something like a couple million rows per worksheet instead of 65,536 (or as I prefer, 2^2^2^2^2). And equation editor is now something that can potentially be used seriously without paying for MathType

[Stephen Speicher 0]

[... A mini-treatise on concerns about Vista ...]

Wow. You really get your money's worth on THE FORUM!

Chad, thanks so much for all this detailed information. It was extremely helpful.

About a 64-bit Media Center for Vista ... Gateway announced this 64-bit Media Center version a year ago, so I am surprised to hear that Vista will not have a 64-bit Media Center. I would like my new machine to be 64-bit, and I just assumed that Vista would have a 64-bit Media Center version. It seemed as if you were not certain of this 64-bit status, so could you suggest a place where I can follow-up so I can know for sure what to expect? I'd rather wait and get what I want. I love my Sony-packaged Media Center and expected to get a Vista version by them, or something similar.

One small thing. You makle a good point about applications that are tied to the OS. One of my favorite little functional tools is PowerToys, mainly for the Virtual Desktop Manager. I was so used to multiple logical windows on Linux that I just embraced that little program when I found it. Does Vista come with that multiple logical window capability built-in?

Thanks again for taking the time to explain all this.

[coreyo 0]

Make sure you have a nice video card to handle the very nice looking GUI of Vista!

[jedymastyr 0]

Chad, thanks so much for all this detailed information. It was extremely helpful.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

About a 64-bit Media Center for Vista ... Gateway announced this 64-bit Media Center version a year ago, so I am surprised to hear that Vista will not have a 64-bit Media Center. I would like my new machine to be 64-bit, and I just assumed that Vista would have a 64-bit Media Center version. It seemed as if you were not certain of this 64-bit status, so could you suggest a place where I can follow-up so I can know for sure what to expect? I'd rather wait and get what I want. I love my Sony-packaged Media Center and expected to get a Vista version by them, or something similar.

I don't have the time right now to reply at length, but I wanted to clarify a couple things I said that might have been confusing.

Vista will have a 64-bit version. When you buy Vista, whether it's the Home Basic, Ultimate, etc. editions, it should contain an installation CD/DVD for both 32-bit and 64-bit. So you can get Windows Ultimate--the "ultimate" version that includes all the specialty functionality like Media Center, Tablet, "XP Pro"-type features, etc.--and you can install it as a 64-bit OS. As for the marketing and including both discs in each box, I am not sure that this is finalized currently since Vista isn't finished, but I've read it on beta support forums so I think it's pretty reliable. There certainly should be 32-bit and 64-bit versions of all Vista editions ("ultimate", "home basic", etc.). What I'm concerned about is that I am fairly certain there are no 64-bit versions of XP Media Center edition, and it isn't currently possible to upgrade from a 32-bit to 64-bit OS without formatting the hard drive [partition] and reinstalling everything. So if you wanted to upgrade from 32-bit Media Center XP to 64-bit Windows Ultimate (which has the Media Center functionality), you might not be able to use the upgrade wizard, but you could still buy the full version and install it in 64-bit if you wanted. But then you have to worry about making sure your hardware, which came with a 32-bit OS, all has 64-bit drivers...

So far, XP Media Center Editions appear to all be 32-bit, although I haven't found a clear affirmation of this anywhere. Still, computer sellers/advertisers engage in trickery and make claims like the article you linked to.

At the top of the article:

Media Center PCs use 64-bit dual core processors

and a little farther down, in a paragraph:

At the heart of the machine is an Intel® Pentium® D 830 dual core processor with 1GB DDR2 SDRAM (533MHz) for swiftly managing both 32-bit applications and future 64-bit software.

They both claim that the hardware is 64-bit, and that it will be able to handle future 64-bit applications, but they do not claim that the software takes advantage of it. It is very deceptive and I personally consider it at least borderline dishonest when companies advertise in this manner with such misleading terminology.

On my personal computer at home with Media Center, I have the same processor as the one you linked to in that article--a Pentium D 830, 64-bit dual-core processor--but I'm still only running a 32-bit version of Windows XP Media Center Edition (MCE). That's how it came from HP. If there is a 64-bit verison of MCE I would like to be using it myself, so I plan on looking into this a little further. Hopefully I'll be able to find a clear, difinitive answer.

One small thing. You makle a good point about applications that are tied to the OS. One of my favorite little functional tools is PowerToys, mainly for the Virtual Desktop Manager. I was so used to multiple logical windows on Linux that I just embraced that little program when I found it. Does Vista come with that multiple logical window capability built-in?

That power toy is very interesting and useful. PowerToys, though, are not really official parts of the OS--they are just cool little toys people developed at Microsoft and Microsoft decided to release without even fully supporting through tech support. I'm not aware of that functionality in Vista, and even if it's released as a PowerToy for Vista I wouldn't expect it to be available the day Vista is released. I also find that functionality very useful in Linux, and hope that there's some support for it in Vista--even if it requires a third-party tool or PowerToy. Unfortunately, it doesn't look promising for early-adopters. This is typically something that is available by purchasing third-party software, though, if there's no PowerToy. For example, it appears this company offers one for XP, although I haven't tried it (and the PowerToy is free so I haven't needed to).

[ewv 0]

One small thing. You makle a good point about applications that are tied to the OS. One of my favorite little functional tools is PowerToys, mainly for the Virtual Desktop Manager. I was so used to multiple logical windows on Linux that I just embraced that little program when I found it. Does Vista come with that multiple logical window capability built-in?

Virtual desktop functionality is tied to the video, not the OS as such. Video cards often come with their own software and drivers that do the same thing, with different kinds of features and ways of controlling it that you may or may not like better. There may be discrete desktops and/or scrolling the monitor around as a window into a larger virtual desktop, continuous scrolling across two monitors, different ways of jumping between desktops and moving applications around between desktops, user-definable hot keys for different functions, etc. I'm currently using ATI's Hydravision on a laptop, not usoft's Power Toys version, and have used several others in the past. Vista may or may not eventually have something like that built in. Sooner or later I would expect it to be standard.

[ewv 0]

If you use Outlook from the new Office, you can format tables and use a lot of Word features right inside the email editor! I believe they're starting up an actual Word engine in the background rather than just providing a small subset of the functionality. The table formatting is amazing, the graphs have more options, and Excel allows you something like a couple million rows per worksheet instead of 65,536 (or as I prefer, 2^2^2^2^2). And equation editor is now something that can potentially be used seriously without paying for MathType

Is it the same equation editor that has been available for years in Word? The mathtype editor was far more extensive than that one (at least as of a few years ago) and was practically a necessity for any serious documentation with mathematical formatting in Word. Is the usoft editor better now?

[Stephen Speicher 0]

When you buy Vista, whether it's the Home Basic, Ultimate, etc. editions, it should contain an installation CD/DVD for both 32-bit and 64-bit.

Just a side point, but one that I find interesting. Listening to a local radio computer show this past weekend I learned that Vista, unlike the previous releases, will not really "install." Instead it will come on a disk as a compressed image file. I think it was called a .wim file. Evidently, there are quite a few advantages to this method.

So far, XP Media Center Editions appear to all be 32-bit, although I haven't found a clear affirmation of this anywhere.

That would be unfortunate if they do not come out with a 64-bit Media Center. Not much point to getting a 64-bit machine if there is no 64-bit Media Center in the works.

Still, computer sellers/advertisers engage in trickery and make claims like the article you linked to.

I think I see what you mean. They advertise a 64-bit Media Center machine, but you can only run Media Center if you run the machine as 32-bit. Is that right? If so, that is rather deceptive.

If there is a 64-bit verison of MCE I would like to be using it myself, so I plan on looking into this a little further. Hopefully I'll be able to find a clear, difinitive answer.

Well, please let me know what you find out, as that is the setup under Vista that I would like.

[jedymastyr 0]

That would be unfortunate if they do not come out with a 64-bit Media Center. Not much point to getting a 64-bit machine if there is no 64-bit Media Center in the works.

I'm sorry, I'm having some sort of communication issue here, so please bear with my strong language as exclusively an attempt to bring clarity:

There WILL be a 64-bit version of Windows with all of the Media Center functionality in Vista.

I am pretty sure there is not one, now, for XP (the operating system prior to Vista). All the manufacturer/vendor claims to the contrary appear to be either deceptive or misleading. XP Media Center PCs with 64-bit processors and 32-bit Windows XP Media Center Edition installed are quite common--my local Best Buy has a whole section of them.

There will certainly be Sony- and HP-made computers properly marketed as 64-bit Vista Media Center PCs, with all the functionality you're used to in said computers. There are two main differences:

• As far as Windows is concerned, this won't be a separate specialty version (Windows Media Center Edition); the highest-end version of Vista, analagous to the current XP Pro as a more advanced version of XP Home, will provide this functionality
  
• Unlike XP Media Center Edition, Vista Ultimate will be available in 64-bit (as well as 32) and has the familiar green Media Center program you're already used to seeing
  

If you wait and buy a 64-bit Sony Media Center PC, and make sure it has a 64-bit version of Vista Ultimate installed, you won't have to worry about any of this. If you want to buy an XP Media Center PC and upgrade it later, you probably will.

Since XP Media Center was released years after XP, they decided to do special branding at the time to promote the great new features as something more than just XP (which everyone was used to).

I think I see what you mean. They advertise a 64-bit Media Center machine, but you can only run Media Center if you run the machine as 32-bit. Is that right? If so, that is rather deceptive.

Exactly! That is the case for current XP versions, but when Vista is released this will no longer be the case.

---

Thanks for bearing with my long posts, and I'm sorry for the confusion.

[Stephen Speicher 0]

There WILL be a 64-bit version of Windows with all of the Media Center functionality in Vista.

Okay. I misunderstood. Sorry.

There will certainly be Sony- and HP-made computers properly marketed as 64-bit Vista Media Center PCs, with all the functionality you're used to in said computers.

That's the machine I want, and I will wait until Vista comes out and get it all pre-installed.

Thanks for clearing everything up.

[jedymastyr 0]

Is it the same equation editor that has been available for years in Word? The mathtype editor was far more extensive than that one (at least as of a few years ago) and was practically a necessity for any serious documentation with mathematical formatting in Word. Is the usoft editor better now?

It already looks a _lot_ better than before and it's still in beta. You no longer get those annoying picture-equations that you have to double-click on to edit, which was the case for MathType as well. The new menu structure makes everything a lot more flat. There is still some significant MathType functionality missing--moving a highlighted equation fragment with alt+drag to put it on the menu, and I'm not sure about the keyboard shortcuts. As part of the normal menu system it may be possible to program in shortcuts just like in MathType, which would be awesome. There appear to be more symbols and dotted-box arrangements than before. When you press space it just puts a space there (easier than Ctrl+shift+enter for text mode then space in MathType, then another shortcut back to math mode).

There are now some new flow controls. With a click of one button you can flatten the equation to one line with parentheses and /'s instead of vertical fraction bars, and then bring it back to a "professional" look with another click. You can export MathML for webpages.

Perhaps equation editor will never get as powerful as MathType, and MathType will probably also get better in its Office 2007 release, but I can only say "yay!" to the new and improved equation editor.

[jedymastyr 0]

Okay. I misunderstood. Sorry.

It's completely my fault for being so unclear and going on at length about it. Thanks for your patience.

[Stephen Speicher 0]

jedymastyr, one more question if you will. I will have the new Vista machine and the old one side by side, and I can connect them by cable to talk to each other. But does Vista have some means of transferring my environment from the old to the new? Things like, for instance, Outlook, where I have all my mail and other folders, and the settings for Outlook itself, like fonts, font sizes, etc.

(Come to think about it, I also have NewsGator, an RSS aggregator, integrated into Outlook. I suppose NewsGator depends upon the internals of Outlook, and the new Outlook with Vista will be entirely different. So I guess I will need a new Vista version of NewsGator. I think getting full functionality for my new Vista system may take a little while.)

[jedymastyr 0]

jedymastyr, one more question if you will. I will have the new Vista machine and the old one side by side, and I can connect them by cable to talk to each other. But does Vista have some means of transferring my environment from the old to the new?

It does

There is an article that documents the process here.

Things like, for instance, Outlook, where I have all my mail and other folders, and the settings for Outlook itself, like fonts, font sizes, etc.

I'm not sure how far it goes in moving things over. I personally prefer to organize all my files manually and do a thorough hard drive cleaning when I reinstall Windows. As a result, I haven't ever used the wizard. I have seen it used once, and have heard from others that it is very helpful.

It will at least move all your favorites, "My Documents"-type folders, desktop, desktop image, font sizes and screen settings, etc. over. If you create any folders for yourself in non-"My Documents"-type places, you will have to move them yourself. For example, if I did this I would plan on manually moving the folder "C:\Downloads" that I created. If I had made the folder as "...My Documents\Downloads" or saved all my downloads onto my Desktop, they would be copied automatically. It certainly won't copy over your installed applications, which must be installed on any new operating system installation (they are preserved only on "upgrades" to the same computer).

Since you are keeping your old computer separate and not wiping it clean before installing Vista, this should hopefully only be a minor inconvenience if it doesn't transfer Outlook messages. You can use File->Import and Export, select "Export a File," and then "Personal Folder File (.pst)." (This may be in a slightly different menu structure in older versions of Office.) Either way, this exports all your emails into a .pst file, which you can then use through the same menu system to import them on another computer with an equivalent or newer version of Outlook.

(Come to think about it, I also have NewsGator, an RSS aggregator, integrated into Outlook. I suppose NewsGator depends upon the internals of Outlook, and the new Outlook with Vista will be entirely different. So I guess I will need a new Vista version of NewsGator. I think getting full functionality for my new Vista system may take a little while.)

(the image is a bit choppy because I saved it as a .jpg)

That's NewsGator working on the next version of Outlook running on the next version of Windows, both of which still aren't even finished

That's how Microsoft programs (and Windows) are. They expose ways for programmers to do things, like adding in toolbars. Whenever a Windows program changes the computer's time, for example, whether the program was made 10 years ago or today it is using the SetLocalTime function found in C:\Windows\system32\kernel32.dll. As new versions come out, all the old published functions work, plus there are new ones added as well.

For the most part, everything will work. The exceptions are minor. For example, TweakXP:

The utility for any serious Windows tweaker! Change hundreds of registry settings from Windows XP, improving appearance, performance and functionality...

Instead of being a normal program that uses these published functions, TweakXP goes in and intrusively changes settings that Microsoft does not publish (and thus aren't guaranteed to work in future versions).

Pretty much all major, reputable applications will work in future versions because they don't use these hacks.

[Stephen Speicher 0]

jedymastyr, thanks again for all the interesting information.