poojagupta

Hip-Hop

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Is it possible to enjoy Hip-Hop music if it sounds to you like it is being sung in Greek and Latin ?

I don't really enjoy any of my most favourite music - the old Hindi Film songs, when I don't like their lyrics.

That is probably why I am lucky not to be able to decipher a single word (and sometimes even the main line) of popular american music.

So when I am not sitting down to enjoy music for "enjoying music" sake but like to have some background when I am driving to work, I switch to the Hip-Hop channel.

My language barrier keeps me from noticing any word that is being sung but I kinda like the beat and style (music combinations ?) of hip-hop numbers. (I don't know anything about music or musical instruments except what sounds nice to my ears). One day I am going to take up a personal project to start understanding music and maybe my taste in music will change.

But what about you guys ? Can Hip-Hop in Greek-and-Latin be music to your ears at all ?

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To me, lyrics in music are secondary. Bad lyrics can slightly mar a good tune, or make a bad tune even less bearable. Worst of all are songs where there is an attempt to fit the music to the words, rather than words to the music.

Good lyrics can make a good tune into a great song, but can't do anything for a bad tune.

If I liked hip-hop (which I don't) it wouldn't necessarily subtract from the music if the lyrics were in Greek or Latin; but it is always better if/when lyrics are good and understandable.

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To me, lyrics in music are secondary. Bad lyrics can slightly mar a good tune, or make a bad tune even less bearable. Worst of all are songs where there is an attempt to fit the music to the words, rather than words to the music.

Good lyrics can make a good tune into a great song, but can't do anything for a bad tune.

If I liked hip-hop (which I don't) it wouldn't necessarily subtract from the music if the lyrics were in Greek or Latin; but it is always better if/when lyrics are good and understandable.

As someone who knows a good deal about music, but stating in plain layman terms, what would you say is it about hip-hop that you don't like ?

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To me, lyrics in music are secondary. Bad lyrics can slightly mar a good tune, or make a bad tune even less bearable. Worst of all are songs where there is an attempt to fit the music to the words, rather than words to the music.

Good lyrics can make a good tune into a great song, but can't do anything for a bad tune.

If I liked hip-hop (which I don't) it wouldn't necessarily subtract from the music if the lyrics were in Greek or Latin; but it is always better if/when lyrics are good and understandable.

...and thanks for the insight about lyrics in backdrop of music :)

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As someone who knows a good deal about music, but stating in plain layman terms, what would you say is it about hip-hop that you don't like ?

In regard to music I am a layman. So anything I say about music is necessarily in layman's terms. I just think that hip-hop, to listen to only, isn't so interesting because it normally lacks melody. But I see how it could get you in the mood for taking on the day in the morning. And I sometimes get a kick out of watching the rhythm, coordination, and athleticism of those who can dance to it.

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I generally don't listen to lyrics either, especially in pop music.

Exceptions would the great standards by masters like Cole Porter, Rogers and Hart, Bacharach and David, Rogers and Hammerstein, George and Ira Gershwin, & Henry Mancini (Moon River). But then, you can't really compare them to what is produced by today's Entertainment Artists.

I liked Carol King, the 5th Dimension, and Brazil 66 also. They did some nice originals and treatments of popular tunes.

I probably wouldn't remember the melodies on these except for the lyrics:

Carly Simon .......You're So Vain that I bet you think this song is about you...

Dusty Sprinfield (Barry Mann) Just A Little Lovin' early in the mornin' Beats a cup of coffee for startin' off the day...

But, it's the melody that usually catches my ear, and sometimes an interesting beat. I can definitely understand enjoying music without understanding the lyrics.

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I like some hip-hop songs, e.g the Miami Vice theme, or some Jay-Z songs, a couple Linkin Park songs in general, along with a few from Eminem and a couple of other people. But the problem is, that after listening to hip-hop songs I am unable to enjoy actual quality music, things that have melody and harmony and movements, etc. There's some way in which hip-hop music affects me that makes me feel antipathy towards real music -- and vice versa, after a prolonged enjoyment of Rachmaninoff someone like Jay-Z can't compare. It's as if these two disparate types of music affect directly opposite (and antagonistic?) "music" centers in my mind, the first being more primal and the second being more rarefied. I don't quite understand it yet...

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What is Hip-Hop?

I asked some students once and they laughed at me and said "it is a lifestyle, not a type of music."

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I like some hip-hop songs, e.g the Miami Vice theme, or some Jay-Z songs, a couple Linkin Park songs in general, along with a few from Eminem and a couple of other people. But the problem is, that after listening to hip-hop songs I am unable to enjoy actual quality music, things that have melody and harmony and movements, etc. There's some way in which hip-hop music affects me that makes me feel antipathy towards real music -- and vice versa, after a prolonged enjoyment of Rachmaninoff someone like Jay-Z can't compare. It's as if these two disparate types of music affect directly opposite (and antagonistic?) "music" centers in my mind, the first being more primal and the second being more rarefied. I don't quite understand it yet...

Could that be because both types of music have a completely different sense of life? And when you are listening to one of them for a while you become more used to that sense of life as being the right one, and therefore an opposite sense of life would repel you? That still doesn't explain why you are attracted to both types of music, though... Perhaps they emphasis different parts of life that you love, yet the way it is done turns both of these areas into music that contradicts each other?

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What is Hip-Hop?

I asked some students once and they laughed at me and said "it is a lifestyle, not a type of music."

I'm no expert on it, but my understanding is that it is a type of music derived from German electronic dance music in the late 60's/early 70's, which became especially popular in American urban areas in the late 70's/early 80's.

Its characteristics include vocals that are spoken rather than sung ("rapping"), and an emphasis on rhythm rather than melody or harmony. A common element in a lot of early hip-hop was for all of the musical accompaniment to be played on vinyl records by a disk jockey while the vocalist ("rapper") spoke over it.

There is also a style of dance referred to as "hip hop dancing," which is a mixture of break dance and some other styles of dance that became popular in nightculbs that play hip hop music.

I think there is a subtle distinction between hip hop and "rap music," but I'm not sure exactly what it is.

Is it possible to enjoy Hip-Hop music if it sounds to you like it is being sung in Greek and Latin ?

I don't like many Hip-Hop songs; but the ones that I do like, I like even in spite of being able to understand what they're saying! :) Yes, I think Hip-Hop that were actually performed in Greek and Latin would be much more interesting.

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One day I am going to take up a personal project to start understanding music and maybe my taste in music will change.

One thing about music is that it's very personal and direct. I'm really skeptical of attempts to over-intellectualize music for that reason - one doesn't need an intellectual reason to appreciate a piece of music, you simply do. A composer would probably need a lot of music theory to better understand his craft, but that's a different issue. I don't say this by way of a criticism at all, but just to note that probably the best way to discover what you enjoy is just to listen to lots of different kinds of music.

You shouldn't rely just on what's played on the radio (even satellite radio e.g. Sirius) to get a good exposure to music. I suggest one of the internet music services such as Rhapsody (http://www.real.com/rhapsody/), where you can listen to any of hundreds of thousands of songs or classical performances for a pretty low monthly/quarterly price. That way you can begin to identify singers/groups/styles that you like. Then, you can usually pick up their CDs cheaply at e.g. library book sales or online (ebay.com, half.com, amazon.com, etc.)

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...probably the best way to discover what you enjoy is just to listen to lots of different kinds of music.

...I suggest one of the internet music services such as Rhapsody (http://www.real.com/rhapsody/), where you can listen to any of hundreds of thousands of songs or classical performances for a pretty low monthly/quarterly price. That way you can begin to identify singers/groups/styles that you like...

Thanks for suggesting a neat roadmap !

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One thing about music is that it's very personal and direct. I'm really skeptical of attempts to over-intellectualize music for that reason - one doesn't need an intellectual reason to appreciate a piece of music, you simply do. A composer would probably need a lot of music theory to better understand his craft, but that's a different issue.

I would agree with this, however I might add that, as a songwriter and musician--the more I learn about music, and the more deeply I analyze and "intellectualize" music theory and the experience of hearing music, the more intense the pleasure I experience when I hear really good music becomes. I've also found that, although I can more easily spot the shortcomings and flaws in certain music, the more I understand these things, the less it bothers me when I actually have to hear such music. There was a time when hearing certain music (e.g. heavy metal or discordant free-form jazz pieces) would literally make me feel physically ill. Now that I can tell myself things like, "Ah, if they only would have EQed that differently, or if they'd added such and such harmonic progression over that random sounding melody, they might could have made it sound decent," such experiences are much more bearable (in a similar way that hearing the rants of a Marxist or a Skeptic are much less threatening for me now that I know exactly what errors in logic they have made to reach their conclusion, and can argue against them).

So my point is, learning about musical concepts, and using reason to understand why certain things appeal to you and certain things don't, can actually enhance your experience--as long as you're not setting out on a moralistic mission to prove to yourself that you shouldn't like the things you actually do like, or something like that.

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What is Hip-Hop?

I asked some students once and they laughed at me and said "it is a lifestyle, not a type of music."

Here are a couple of examples:

LL Cool J- "Around the Way Girl"

(I like her necklace.)

Malcolm-Jamal Warner & Carl Anthony Payne II- "Shakespere Freestyle" (from The Cosby Show)

These songs don't make much of an attempt to be profound or anything, but you'll see that they're easy to dance to, and have a mostly lighthearted kind of mood. These are the kind of hip-hop songs I don't mind listening to once in a while.

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Hip Hop music has roots that run deep. It's actual beginnings are from slavery and particularly negro spirituals that formed gospel. From gospel came blues then jazz then funk and then hip hop. They are all different forms of music that branched from the same origins. The immediate modern conception of hip hop may be lyrics of violence over a repetitive beat but what is known as 'underground' hip hop delicately fuses jazz, blues, funk and R&B mixed with intellectual lyrics and creativity of rhythmn.

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Hip Hop music has roots that run deep. It's actual beginnings are from slavery and particularly negro spirituals that formed gospel. From gospel came blues then jazz then funk and then hip hop. They are all different forms of music that branched from the same origins. The immediate modern conception of hip hop may be lyrics of violence over a repetitive beat but what is known as 'underground' hip hop delicately fuses jazz, blues, funk and R&B mixed with intellectual lyrics and creativity of rhythmn.

Thanks Valara

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What is Hip-Hop?

I asked some students once and they laughed at me and said "it is a lifestyle, not a type of music."

Hmm, when I think of "life-style" and "hip-hop" I think of thuggery, so this doesn't seem like a great endorsement of the genre. If you'll note, lots of rappers get violent with one another and even kill each other. There is violence and destruction in other forms of music, such as some heavy metal, which is heavily tinged with nihilism, but I don't think it's gotten to the point where killing is so common.

Valara mentions other musical forms that influenced hip-hop. I think R&B, jazz and blues have so much more to offer in every way, even intellectually, perhaps especially intellectually.

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Hmm, when I think of "life-style" and "hip-hop" I think of thuggery, so this doesn't seem like a great endorsement of the genre. If you'll note, lots of rappers get violent with one another and even kill each other. There is violence and destruction in other forms of music, such as some heavy metal, which is heavily tinged with nihilism, but I don't think it's gotten to the point where killing is so common.

Valara mentions other musical forms that influenced hip-hop. I think R&B, jazz and blues have so much more to offer in every way, even intellectually, perhaps especially intellectually.

Is the music of Hip-Hop Rap??

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Is the music of Hip-Hop Rap??

I think they are interchangeable terms.

Here is what it says at Wikipedia:

Hip hop music (also referred to as rap or rap music) is a style of popular music which came into existence roughly the mid '70s but became a large part of modern day pop culture in the late '80s.

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Hip Hop music has roots that run deep. It's actual beginnings are from slavery and particularly negro spirituals that formed gospel. From gospel came blues then jazz then funk and then hip hop. They are all different forms of music that branched from the same origins. The immediate modern conception of hip hop may be lyrics of violence over a repetitive beat but what is known as 'underground' hip hop delicately fuses jazz, blues, funk and R&B mixed with intellectual lyrics and creativity of rhythmn.

I sort of disagree. In a certain sense, you could argue that all modern popular music is influenced by gospel, blues, and jazz. But, even though there were funk elements in the earliest rap music I've heard (I'll just call it "rap" now, since people have alleged that rap and hip hop are actually the same, and it's shorter to write), I don't believe that rap was born directly out of funk. I do think there were some American DJ's who would play drum fills off of funk records, and cut back and forth between one record doing a drum fill, straight into another doing a fill, without letting it go into the "song,"--a technique called "breakbeat," and some "MC's" started rapping over that. But I still hold that the whole idea of using that type of spoken word over rhythmical dance music first gained popularity in Germany, in the late 60's/early 70's, and that's what gave those American DJs and MCs the idea to do the same thing, but mix it with funk beats instead of necessarily only Roland 808 drum machines.

I think the marriage between rap music and r&b, and soul, and funk, jazz, and all of that, was a much later development. Not necessarily there in its earliest inceptions. But.. maybe you know something about it I don't know (most of my knowledge of this subject comes more from being 24 years old than from actually being interested in rap music!).

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I've never been a big fan of rap or hip-hop, but I did like several songs from the 80s before "gangsta rap" took over. LL Cool J, Tone Loc, Young MC, Beastie Boys, Run DMC, Fat Boys, and others were entertaining, often fun, creative, and musical. And you could actually understand what was being said, unlike most of rap that followed.

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Hmm, when I think of "life-style" and "hip-hop" I think of thuggery, so this doesn't seem like a great endorsement of the genre. If you'll note, lots of rappers get violent with one another and even kill each other. There is violence and destruction in other forms of music, such as some heavy metal, which is heavily tinged with nihilism, but I don't think it's gotten to the point where killing is so common.

Valara mentions other musical forms that influenced hip-hop. I think R&B, jazz and blues have so much more to offer in every way, even intellectually, perhaps especially intellectually.

I'm with you on this one. It's not just the "music", but the low life attitude they project that gets to me. I cannot turn the stuff off quickly enough. Jazz is on a very much higher level than ghetto music. A Comparison of English with Ghetto English comes to mind.

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The small amount of rap that I have heard seems not to have much melody, if any. It seems as though the rappers are chanting words to certain rhythms. Maybe there are some rap tunes with recognizable melodies. If there is no melody is it still music?

I will admit that I have never purposefully listened to a complete rap tune, but have heard snatches here and there as I flipped the TV tuner from channel to channel.

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The small amount of rap that I have heard seems not to have much melody, if any. It seems as though the rappers are chanting words to certain rhythms. Maybe there are some rap tunes with recognizable melodies. If there is no melody is it still music?

I would consider rhythm, as the purposeful repeated temporal ordering of sounds, to be music even with the absence of melody. Rhythm alone offers a rather limited scope of musical expression, but it is music nonetheless.

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I would consider rhythm, as the purposeful repeated temporal ordering of sounds, to be music even with the absence of melody. Rhythm alone offers a rather limited scope of musical expression, but it is music nonetheless.

I should clarify that it is not just our perception of sound intervals that allows us to discern rhythm, but the integration of that time ordering into a whole. That act of integration requires a higher-level of consciousness than mere perception.

Consider the simple case of two men walking together. Observation shows that they automatically synchronize their steps, in a rythym which forms the base of more sophisticated actions in dance and music. This sort of behavior is generally absent in animals. For animals running side by side, or for singing birds, there is rarely any unison of action. The reason for this distinction between man and most other animals is the level of the consciousness involved. The rythymic behavior in man is a feedback mechanism of some level of conscious attention which has become automatized. When synchronistic behavior is observed in other animals, it is typically not rythymic, a consequence of a limit on and lack of purposeful behavior for its conscious mechanisms.

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