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Singles?

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Rule#1 (for men and women) - Go to where the Objectivist singles are. 

... Another good place -- for the same reason -- is THE FORUM for Ayn Rand Fans. :)

OK, here I am!

Er, now what? :)

(You know, I tried online dating services a few times. Found them all to be about the same - except eHarmony, which told me that I was one of the 20% of people who took the initial personality test that they would not be able to help. I felt special, though I wondered why they didn't just take the 20%, lump us all together, and make "misfit matches." :D Got a number of first dates on those services, and one second date, but that was all.)

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OK, here I am!

Er, now what? :)

(You know, I tried online dating services a few times. Found them all to be about the same - except eHarmony, which told me that I was one of the 20% of people who took the initial personality test that they would not be able to help. I felt special, though I wondered why they didn't just take the 20%, lump us all together, and make "misfit matches." :) Got a number of first dates on those services, and one second date, but that was all.)

I was in that same 20%, at the time I wondered if most Objectivists would fit in to that group, and still do. I took it more for the personality test, and out of boredom though. But, also being single I suppose I too, am looking for a female, preferably an Objectivist female. :D

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Rule#1 (for men and women) - Go to where the Objectivist singles are.
OK, here I am!

At the conferences, this is the point when I tell the guys to play it cool and don't expect to make moves on a gal and score before the conference ends. Since neither a two-week time frame nor the possibility of "closing the deal" apply to an online forum, I'll skip that part. :)

At this point I would recommend following your interests and values and, when you see someone or something that interests you take note, post if you have something to contribute, etc. I see you are already doing that. It is also OK to lurk, look around, and see if there is someone who is appealing.

When you find someone like that, it's time to make the first move -- something that's usually the guy's job. Here that means sending a Private Message (PM), an Instant Message (IM), etc. Go to her profile page and see how to reach her by the various means under "Communicate" on the right side of the page.

The best opening line is honest and communicates values. What about her got your attention (besides the fact that she is single and female, of course)? Just state it simply, indicating that you value it such as:

"That was a wonderful painting you recommended. Thanks for posting that."

"I liked what you wrote about [ a movie ]. That's my second favorite movie after [ another movie ]."

"That picture of you in your avatar is so cheerful. It made my whole day. Thanks."

The general idea is "I like [something] about you. Thank you. Bye."

Now it's up to her. If she gets back to you, just continue on like that in a friendly way and see what happens. If it develops into something -- great! If it doesn't, friends are a good thing to have, too.

If she totally rejects you, accept it and move on. Rejection happens a lot, and is to be expected, so don't let it throw you. Babe Ruth held the home run record, but he also held the record for strike-outs. Striking out romantically is OK if you keep trying. You don't need every woman in the world to love you -- just ONE (1) good one. :)

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At the conferences, this is the point when I tell the guys to play it cool and don't expect to make moves on a gal and score before the conference ends.  Since neither a two-week time frame nor the possibility of "closing the deal" apply to an online forum, I'll skip that part.  :)

Nevertheless, I cannot help but offer my 100% endorsement of this little gem of advice. I met my girlfriend (er, significant other) at the 2003 Objectivist Conference -- and after we became an item, she told me that I was basically the only guy at the conference who wasn't putting the moves on her. And moreover, it was precisely because I played it cool and acted naturally that she enjoyed talking to me, and wanted to get to know me better. You need to show her that you're not willing to get romantically involved with someone merely because they are a female at an Objectivist conference (or on an Objectivist discussion board); instead, show her that you're willing to get to know her better because you share values with her.

The best opening line is honest and communicates values.  What about her got your attention (besides the fact that she is single and female, of course)?

[...]

Now it's up to her.  If she gets back to you, just continue on like that in a friendly way and see what happens.  If it develops into something -- great!  If it doesn't, friends are a good thing to have, too. 

Again, great advice. I can only add that, if you do get to the point of corresponding with each other, keep your primary focus on the question of what you think of her rather than on what she thinks of you. I find this perspective helpful. Too many people get bogged down in nonsensical guessing games about the other person's thoughts. If you eventually and objectively find her to be romantically worth pursuing, then take the next step and make your move; if not, then don't. Either way, what you think of her is what should dictate your actions, so don't spend too much time speculating about what she thinks of you.

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I can only add that, if you do get to the point of corresponding with each other, keep your primary focus on the question of what you think of her rather than on what she thinks of you.  I find this perspective helpful.  Too many people get bogged down in nonsensical guessing games about the other person's thoughts.  If you eventually and objectively find her to be romantically worth pursuing, then take the next step and make your move; if not, then don't.  Either way, what you think of her is what should dictate your actions, so don't spend too much time speculating about what she thinks of you.

This is a really important point that took many years to sink in for me.

If your focus is on who she is, then the standard of value is your life and values; if it is on how she sees you, then you are giving up on your standards and accepting whatever standards she may have -- and if you don't know her well, you additionally have no idea whether she has decent standards at all. On top of that, if she does see what you've done, then she'll see you as someone who would toss away his standards for anybody (since you don't know who she is). That's seriously bad!

The other issue is who's the driver. Are you going to be THE MAN -- the cool and confident guy who is in control, who initiates and acts in life -- or a passive, desparate lump who will chase after the first hint of any woman? Are you going to be the kind of guy to be selective, to take the time to know who SHE is? If your focus is on how she sees you, the game's over.

Yet another perspective: are you having fun getting to know people, with the possibility down the road that something might develop -- or are you in the mode of putting up with talking and buying her dinner in order to score? (Not that one-night stands or short-term relationships are necessarily bad, mind you -- and talking and dinner should be fun there as well!) Also bad is pursuing a relationship out of loneliness -- that is, motivated by the desire to remove a negative, rather than achieve a positive. Don't try creating a relationship if you're looking for someone who will fix your problems. Fix your problems first!

Of course, like most everything else, there's a context to this. If your social skills, grooming, and attitude are so bad that people run away screaming, then it would be a good idea to take a little time to consider how others may see you. For the 99% of us who aren't that bad, though, this shouldn't be an issue.

Bottom line: have fun going after the things that matter TO YOU.

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::grumble:: I just found this topic after posting in the other topic :). Anyway, now that I have found the party, I have a question. Do you think that there is a good chance of having a relationship long-distance like everyone is talking about? I know people do it, but is it really the best way to meet someone? I have only had one really close relationship, but thinking back on it I realize that I greatly value things that you can only get when someone is actually there (like holding hands, walking together, etc.) Has anyone here had a good long distance relationship?

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You don't need every woman in the world to love you -- just ONE (1) good one. :D

I did the math: assuming that the perfect woman is one in a million, and that half the world's six billion people are women, there are 3,000 perfect women out there for me. :) :) :D

I understand what everyone is saying - pursue your values while being open to the possibility that you'll meet someone who shares them. When someone looks interesting take a chance and see how it goes. Don't aim for a "quick score" (unless that's your goal - it's not mine). Concentrate on her (perhaps potential) value to you and not on how she might see you. Seek to build a positive, not to fix or remove a negative. Don't be discouraged if things don't progress. And (my own addition) be prepared for the possibility that you will decide it shouldn't progress. No news in any of that, but simple and rational enough.

And yet at this point I feel I ought to try to say something superlatively witty or charming that will circumvent all the above and make every woman reading this go, "Oo! Must have that man!" But I won't. :D

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And yet at this point I feel I ought to try to say something superlatively witty or charming that will circumvent all the above and make every woman reading this go, "Oo! Must have that man!" But I won't. :)

Good! Because a lot of rational women want the strong, silent type. Ayn Rand did.

Smart women don't take long to tire of the "witty" flashy types who look good at first but tend to run out of material by the third date.

You know what really impresses a good woman? -- Competence, reliability, honesty, and the self-confidence to be yourself and pursue your values even if you're shy or inexperienced with women.

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Do you think that there is a good chance of having a relationship long-distance like everyone is talking about? I know people do it, but is it really the best way to meet someone? I have only had one really close relationship, but thinking back on it I realize that I greatly value things that you can only get when someone is actually there (like holding hands, walking together, etc.)

Especially the "etc." :)

The idea is to start a relationship online with the idea that it may evolve into the "up close and personal" kind. Nowadays, half the couples I know did it that way. After two people meet online or at a conference, they continue communicating by e-mail, phone, or even old-fashioned paper letters. Then then make arrangements to meet at a conference or other event, get closer, spend a lot of time and money traveling to be together, get engaged, and get married. The process usually takes one to four years. If it happens, it happens when it's going to happen. There's no way to speed it up, so relax and enjoy the process.

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Has anyone here had a good long distance relationship?

I would like to offer some advice here, since I met my love at an Objectivist conference, which led to a long-distance relationship and eventually to my moving halfway across the country to live with him. Is it worth it? For us, absolutely!

Whether something like this is worth it for you depends on exactly what you are want in a romantic partner. Do you insist on nothing less than your ideal? Or will you be happy with someone who shares some of your values, but may hold some contradictory beliefs? Or are you looking for a partner with a good sense of life who you could then help them to learn about the explicit philosophy of Objectivism? Or are you looking for something else?

If you will only be satisfied with your ideal, then most likely a long-distance relationship (which should eventually involve one person or both moving to live near each other) is absolutely worth your time. Finding your ideal can be very difficult, but extraordinarily rewarding. However, just looking at the ratio of women to men in Objectivism, a better solution for many is to find a partner who lives nearby with a shared sense of life who is willing to learn about Objectivism.

If you do meet someone who lives far away, and you find in them a rare value that you don’t find in anyone else, then a long-distance relationship can work. It has worked out beautifully for Alex and me.

For those of you who are looking for concrete advice about what to do to stand out to someone, or other details about managing a long-distance relationship, I do have suggestions. But, I think I will leave that for a different post if anyone is interested.

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And yet at this point I feel I ought to try to say something superlatively witty or charming that will circumvent all the above and make every woman reading this go, "Oo! Must have that man!" But I won't. :)

Good!  Because a lot of rational women want the strong, silent type.  Ayn Rand did.

Smart women don't take long to tire of the "witty" flashy types who look good at first but tend to run out of material by the third date. 

You know what really impresses a good woman? -- Competence, reliability, honesty, and the self-confidence to be yourself and pursue your values even if you're shy or inexperienced with women.

Well, it's partly because I'm shy that I make jokes like that. :) On the other hand, humor is important to me.

I'm trying to imagine what it would be like to run out of material. Not quips and one-liners - I mean substance. I've always preferred to get past small talk pretty quickly. Rather go deep on some common value than talk about the weather.

How's this for a guideline: don't audition.

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For those of you who are looking for concrete advice about what to do to stand out to someone, or other details about managing a long-distance relationship, I do have suggestions. But, I think I will leave that for a different post if anyone is interested.

I'm awsome, but don't know whether I stand out as such. So yes, I am interested in any tips you have to offer.

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I'm awsome, but don't know whether I stand out as such.

With that attitude, standing out is only a matter of time. Don’t forget though that you’re already taken though! :)

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I think I'm looking at things slightly differently in that I'm looking first for that instant sparkage. At times, I've wondered if I'm not substituting my emotions for reasoning but in my experience a relationship is both vastly easier and more exiciting if you have that instant mutual connection. When I've dated women where there was an interest but not that WHAM of a connection it eventually fizzles. The big problem of course is that the sparkage thing happens pretty rarely.

Scientist: an old friend of mine just got married through a long distance relationship (she's American and her husband is a Brit). It can be hard but it definitely can work.

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I did the math: assuming that the perfect woman is one in a million, and that half the world's six billion people are women, there are 3,000 perfect women out there for me. :D :D :D

And yet at this point I feel I ought to try to say something superlatively witty or charming that will circumvent all the above and make every woman reading this go, "Oo! Must have that man!" But I won't. :D

Good!  Because a lot of rational women want the strong, silent type.  Ayn Rand did.

Smart women don't take long to tire of the "witty" flashy types who look good at first but tend to run out of material by the third date. 

You know what really impresses a good woman? -- Competence, reliability, honesty, and the self-confidence to be yourself and pursue your values even if you're shy or inexperienced with women.

Well, it's partly because I'm shy that I make jokes like that. :D On the other hand, humor is important to me.

I'm trying to imagine what it would be like to run out of material. Not quips and one-liners - I mean substance. I've always preferred to get past small talk pretty quickly. Rather go deep on some common value than talk about the weather.

How's this for a guideline: don't audition.

For me-humor is essential. Also though Betsy is right, it wears out and substance is what lasts. I can't stand a Constantly self-depreciatory style, but it can be appropriate as an *instead* to getting upset with yourself, or to stave off an embarrassing moment.

Personal note: I've known this guy since I was ten, but we only got close once we were adults (lots of the pre-teen stuff was all smoldering eyes and diary entries) and esp since I moved 1000 miles away. Now we are an online relationship. :D

I wouldn't say we're sure we're committed, because we are friends first and from different philosophical backgrounds-(he's all into pomo and one of the reasons I'm so against :) ) But regardless of how it turns out we've come a lot further on line then we ever did in person, so I see nothing at all wrong with the approach. I mean if it took childhood sweethearts to find the internet in order to understand each other, well, I think anyone can do it!!

I also met my female best friend online 5 years ago and she just came down for a visit a few months ago. I know her entirely from the web, her and him (see above for *him*) are my two intellectuals.

Well I'm rambling... In essence-YES! good long distance relationships ARE possible.

In fact sometimes they are the best, b/c you know for darn sure they aren't out of convenience :)

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I think I'm looking at things slightly differently in that I'm looking first for that instant sparkage.  At times, I've wondered if I'm not substituting my emotions for reasoning but in my experience a relationship is both vastly easier and more exciting if you have that instant mutual connection. 

Absolutely!

On P. 223 of Ayn Rand's Marginalia, Miss Rand answered a newspaper quiz question "Do you believe in love at first sight?" with a definite "Yes." I agree. Sparks aren't causeless. Something we see in another person impacts our sense of life and makes those sparks. It can be a great start for a relationship.

Sometimes the sparks fizzle out and sometimes they catch fire in an all-consuming passion but, in any case, spark-hunting is definitely worthwhile. I have also seen warm friendships begin to smolder and suddenly burst into flame given the right conditions, so that is an another way to find a great romantic partner.

The only thing I would warn against is a romantic commitment without sparks, flames, chemistry, or passion. All the good "reasoning" in the world will not substitute for the emotions that can bind two people together as nothing else can.

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With that attitude, standing out is only a matter of time.  Don’t forget though that you’re already taken though!  :)

:). Listen pal, you are just my BEST FRIEND AND ROOMATE, and NOTHING MORE. Don't make me reinstall the booby traps.

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[snip] (he's all into pomo and one of the reasons I'm so against  :) ) [snip]

Out of curiosity what is 'pomo'? :)

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:).  Listen pal, you are just my BEST FRIEND AND ROOMATE, and NOTHING MORE.  Don't make me reinstall the booby traps.

:) Fine then, I see how it is.

Anyways, I’d like to suggest that any guy looking for a way to meet girls and become more comfortable with girls at the same time should take themselves to some ballroom dancing lessons. :D

As for long distance relationships, moving back and forth from Philly to Pasadena has put me in two. I didn’t have a hard time with the distance simply because both times I knew there was no one else I would rather be with, the distance really didn’t have a factor in either of the relationships ending. I’d take the girl next door over the one in Toronto, should they both be virtuous, as a matter of principle. I think it is possible for a case of optional values between two girls... "it is possible" - as in I'd consider myself lucky to have two girls to I liked enough to use distance as the deciding factor.

Pomo... the only thing I found on google was a group of Indians in northern California? Can’t be.

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Pomo... the only thing I found on google was a group of Indians in northern California? Can’t be.

That's exactly what I found :) . Now I'm even more curious as to its meaning.

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That's exactly what I found  :) .  Now I'm even more curious as to its meaning.

pomo means post modernism, although I thought it was a typo and she meant porno instead of pomo, but in a certain sense the two are equivilent. :)

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:).  Listen pal, you are just my BEST FRIEND AND ROOMATE, and NOTHING MORE.  Don't make me reinstall the booby traps.

:)  Fine then, I see how it is.

:D Now if you guys explain me ^this,^ I'll tell you what pomo is. :D

(Or, in case you don't want to tell, take a harder look at that results page in Google!)

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Anyways, I’d like to suggest that any guy looking for a way to meet girls and become more comfortable with girls at the same time should take themselves to some ballroom dancing lessons.

I'd like to second, third, and fourth this suggestion! I took ballroom lessons for about three years when I lived up in Los Angeles. Everything from swing to waltz to tango to bolero to etc.

In those three years, I got only one date.

But meeting single women, I have come to realize, is only an ancilliary point. In my first lesson, I was terrified. "You mean you wan't me to (gasp!) touch her !?!? Yes, I am that shy.

At the end, I had to worry about outdancing -- and occasionally even intimidating -- many dance partners. Mostly non-Objectivists, though. We seem to, as a general rule, have an affinity to ballroom dancing.

But the best part of ballroom dancing is that short time on the dance floor when everything clicks, and you are dancing your best, and everything -- for lack of better words -- just flows. Your mind decides on a pattern or a move and your (and her) body glides (or struts if it is tango) effortlessly.

Ballroom dancing gave me absolutely no introductions to Miss Right. But it gave me a leg up on what I should do on the day I actually do meet her. No witty repartee. Just a "Shall we dance" followed by action backed up by the least idle chatter possible.

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