An Introduction to Progressive Exercise

[Dan Moore 0]

Hello all,

I have read with earnest this thread over the duration and have finally come to a mind to post.

First I noticed that Antonio and Gonyea were cited as showing hypertrophy increases in the 300%+ range and although this was an accurate statement the statement that followed wasn't.

This was not done within one set to failure, as in the terms of set and failure used in modern weighlifting. This was a study were weights that represented 10% of the birds weight was strapped to the wing to induce strech of the lat muscle of the quail. The duration of the weighted stretch was a full day followed by a day or two rest (unweighted), the load was then increased by 5% for another day. This is hardly representative of human training and in my opinion can not be used to ascertain any results that would be seen in humans.

What did this prove? It along with all the other chronic stretch studies (see Alway, Goldspink, Gonyea, Antonio, and others) proved that even in the face of a constant load muscle has the ability to continue the growth process. IE muscle recovery in and of itself is not needed to continue hypertrophic signaling. Does it pertain or contain any relevance to human muscle physiology and training. Sure since the work of many others agree with this hypothesis it can be assumed that human muscle has this same intrinic property. Human training however is another animal (no joke intended). The body is full of checks and balances that downplay hypertrophy as it is not in the best benefit to obtain huge amounts of muscle mass. One of these is overt reductions in recovery during prolonged stress, this shouldn't be confused with the muscle's ability to handle prolonged stress but the body as a whole. During extreme stress the human body has a tendency of wearing down, both overtly (IE overtraining) and covertly (molecular processes and energetics). It is therefore hardly possible to acheive these same results. Even incases with overt (non casual) drug use the hypertrophy gains seen aren't nearly as dramatic, 1% to 25%.

Just about every type of program under the sun has been tried either emperically or scientifically to see what type of system can produce the greatest gains. The one thing they all have in common is work overload, something that can be further scrutinized by looking at my forum and reading the work Ron Sowers and Myself have presented. So to say one program is any better than the other is honestly pretty naive and pointless. This is due to the myriad of factors that are involved and it's very very hard to quantify anyone as the one that either exhibits the greatest signaling or the one the inhibits the greatest.

You can access our latest article at my website.

Dan Moore

www.hypertrophy-research.com

[RayK 0]

Just about every type of program under the sun has been tried either emperically or scientifically to see what type of system can produce the greatest gains. The one thing they all have in common is work overload, something that can be further scrutinized by looking at my forum and reading the work Ron Sowers and Myself have presented. So to say one program is any better than the other is honestly pretty naive and pointless. This is due to the myriad of factors that are involved and it's very very hard to quantify anyone as the one that either exhibits the greatest signaling or the one the inhibits the greatest.

www.hypertrophy-research.com

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Lets say, hypothetically, that every training program produced the same beneficial results, (which I do not agree with). Then one must use other factors besides the end product to judge which one is better. What is it that one would use to do this? I would use economics, that being the conservation of one's energy. Understanding the nature of humans, and every other living species, that being we are all limited by our resources over a life time. Why would one want to use more resources to gain the same product? If one can buy the same pair of pants for $20, why would I want to spend $100?

I also understand the primary concern for my clients, mostly busy professionals, is to get all they can from every workout while still enjoying a life outside the gym. At Progressive Exercise, I manufacture time, time for my clients to enhance their lives, with their enhanced body.

Also, there was no misleading on my part as the study by Antonio and Goynea is, or was, available on the web, and I read it years ago at Nature.com. Lastly, and what so many people still do not want to acknowledge is the study done which showed an amazing increase in muscle and strength, which can still be read through the link below.

http://www.nautilusnorth.com/reanddev.html

Again, as always, I advise everyone to search out the answers and when you find them, implement them to enhance your life.

[Dan Moore 0]

Lets say, hypothetically, that every training program produced the same beneficial results, (which I do not agree with).  Then one must use other factors besides the end product to judge which one is better.  What is it that one would use to do this?  I would use economics, that being the conservation of one's energy.  Understanding the nature of humans, and every other living species, that being we are all limited by our resources over a life time.  Why would one want to use more resources to gain the same product?  If one can buy the same pair of pants for $20, why would I want to spend $100? 

Also, there was no misleading on my part as the study by Antonio and Goynea is, or was, available on the web, and I read it years ago at Nature.com.  Lastly, and what so many people still do not want to acknowledge is the study done which showed an amazing increase in muscle and strength, which can still be read through the link below. 

#1. One must define a goal and or benefit. The benefits from varying resistance training protocols depend on the training itself. I.E, training for performance vs, training for aesthetics are not the same. I am referring to hypertrophy (Growth) of skeletal muscle cells. Where that is concerned many protocols and training regimes have been scrutinized in controlled settings and the results show some commonalities. Work overload and frequency.

#2. Protein Synthesis rates are elevated for a duration of time and not indefinatley. This timeframe has been studied and replicated by many peer reviewed processes and hence has become the standard. The time frame is roughly 24 to 48 hours. Therefore, this being the case it would make no sense for anyone who's goal is hypertrophy to wait for one week or even 5 days to work the same tissue again. This is the basis of Antonio's work, Gonyea's, Alway's, Goldspinks, Rennie and the myriad of other researches who are currently trying to unravel the web of skeletal muscle hypertrophy. Frequent loading influences MMPS (mixed muscle protein synthesis) more than infrequent.

#3. Having read, and even discussed with Dr. Antonio, his "Human Muscle Hypertrophy" review in which he even makes this clear - the animal models used from the 80's and 90's, although enlightening into the molecular signaling paths, do not have nearly an impact on humans, as we do not have the availability to reproduce the outcome from chronic stretch.

For anyone reading this, this is the distinction, the chronic stretch models and human work induced hypertrophy are different in several ways. Metabolically, Physiologically, Neurologically and even Hormonal.

With that in mind let me say, I did not say you mislead, I said you mis-stated the facts of the study. The Gonyea studies were not one set to failure studies. Anyone wishing to read these can still find them on Pubmed. Here are the references

Antonio, J. and W. J. Gonyea. The role of fiber hypertrophy and hyperplasia in intermittently stretched avian muscle. J. Appl. Physiol. 74(4): 1893-1898, 1993.

Antonio, J. and W.J. Gonyea. Progressive stretch overload of avian muscle results in muscle fiber hypertrophy prior to fiber hyperplasia. J. Appl. Physiol., 75(3): 1263-1271, 1993.

If you are unfamiliar with the research database "Pubmed" then you may PM or email me and I will link you to them.

Now let's look at this study you reference.

Points to mention,

Beside being obviously biased, Casey and AJ trained every 48 hours, as I said PS elevation is highest during this time window. But even with that this study is flawed from the beginning to end.

Sample size, N=2, not a very large sample size at all.

Controls, other than frequency and sets what controls were used, Nutrition? Warmup? AAS? Not even a sample control specimen.

The results in this study have never, ever ever, been able to be reproduced in elite level trained Body Builders and certainly not in novice BBs(who generally show more growth in shorter duration than trained subjects). Granted Casey was one heck of a genetically gifted BB and with the prevalence of growth enhancing hormones at the time it might have been possible to gain some substantial size. Yet even when studying the effects of exogenous hormones on trained or untrained subjects, no studies show results of this magnitude.

With the lack of reproducible results, lack of sample size, lack of controls, how can anyone with the slightest scientific understanding come to a positive conclusion about this one.

So for all the readers here, whether you use infrequent HIT, HST, EDT, GVT, DFHT, DCT, MaxOT, or just about any other abbreviation you can think of, you will experience growth if applied consistently with a progressive increase in work (load or for our purposes weight on the bar X distance moved or for our purposed how many reps performed) and maintain appropriate nutrition.

My intention is not to defame anyone or question their knowledge or belief, I simply wanted to show an opposing view based on scientific evidence, not empirical observation.

If anyone would like to discuss this further please visit my forum (link is on my website) and I would be more than willing to point you to scientific evidence that explains how and why human muscle cells grow.

Dan Moore

www.hypertrophy-research.com

[RayK 0]

You are correct Dan, one must define and set goals. To have hypertrophy of the muscle is the goal of everyone of my clients. It is the added muscle that allows them to function better in their lives. If a person wanted to train for performance they should still attempt to gain more muscle. As it is the larger amount of muscle that will allow them to produce an enhanced performance in their specific endeavor. Written in a slightly different way, take the enhanced body to enhance the person's specific performance goal.

I have never stated that protein synthesis goes on indefinitely. But, the muscle that humans are training for growth is not in a vacuum. It is connected to a total system, that being the body. So although protein synthesis drops off after 48 hours, does not mean that the system is fully replenished. What I have found in my own research (which you might not agree with, because I am the only person recording my results), is that most people do not make progress long-term when training every other day or at least blunt their progress.

I have also trained people, along with myself, on almost every type of training protocol that has been thought of. Years of training every other day, every day, twice a day of every day and so many more that I hate to fathom the time. Even with a constant flow of protein synthesis, growth is not guaranteed. I have found that most people over-train and make no progress, or stop training altogether. Again, most people have a life to lead outside of the gym, and when you add in all their other stressors, how are they going to replenish from the multiple attacks on their system?

So although science has shown that protein synthesis is activated by exercise and last up to 48 hours, this does not mean that the body will actually grow from the exercise. If this was true gyms would be full of very large people as very very many people train almost every day or every other day.

Charles Darwin was one of a few people, and the primary one of his day to come to the conclusions that he did on evolution. Gregor Mendel was the only person of his day to come to his conclusions. Which were lost and ridiculed for 35 years. What am I getting at? That I can not care if anyone agrees with me. It is most scientific studies that I find bias. Why? Because they are performed in vacuums with so many controls that they do not relate to reality. I have also been reading scientific studies for around 23 years now. When trying to apply their outcomes, I have found that most do not work, nor can they be duplicated in a real life scenario.

Arthur Jones and Ellington Darden while at Nautilus had produced many positive outcomes with genetically average people. Yes, Casey Viator was and is a genetically superior BB, so I do not expect the same returns from an average person. It is the genetically average person that I train, mostly. While training the genetically average person, I found that they could not withstand every other day sessions and still grow. This is why I slowly moved out to the time frame that I use now. But, within one's genetic capacity, muscle growth can occur with Arthur Jones' defined principles.

After many years of reading, research, observed observations and critical thinking I have come to many conclusions. One of the simplest conclusions is that exercise is a means to an end. I think that end is to enhance the body, so that it can enhance one's life. So get what one can from exercise and then get out of the gym and use the enhanced body to achieve other goals.

Best regards in life to all.

[Jason Fowler 0]

RayK, I have enjoyed reading your posts for their clarity and simplicity. Up until October of this year I have never exercised in my life. I have played sports and worked of course, but never for the purpose improving my strength and overall health.

Less than 2 months ago I bought a low-end exercise machine and I have used techniques inspired by the information you presented here. Visually I have had noticeable gains in my arms which are very likely my weakest area. In fact, my body has always been inconsistent in terms of muscle, with my legs having a lot of muscle and my upper body with next to nothing.(or put simply, thick legs and skinny arms)

Within maybe a week or 2 I may already max the machine out with my leg exercises. I have been doing seated leg extensions and I noticed that you do leg presses. Why do you use leg presses and should I switch to those instead of leg extensions?

[RayK 0]

Jason, I use multi-joint exercises because they use the largest amount of the body in one motion. With leg-press I can attack every thing from one's abdominal and lumbar muscles all the way down to one's calves. This leaves me a lot more recuperative resources for growth. If I did exercises for every body part to try an isolate a muscle, which does not happen, I would waste a large amount of my resources on inefficient activity. Which will blunt one's growth, slowing down the total systematic growth process.

Try and curl a bar-bell without having your chest move towards contraction. Also feel your abdominals tighten as you do any exercise. I do not agree with the proliferation of exercises today. Pick the hardest most demanding exercises with the highest amount of intensity to stimulate systematic growth. Then get out of your bodies way and allow the growth to happen. The workout is only the first part of a three part system; stimulant, recuperation and growth.

If the stimulant is high enough, one can generate systematic growth with just leg-press alone, of course within one's genetic capacity.

I hope this points you in the right direction, let me know.

[Carlos 0]

If you don't mind Ray, I have one quick question about burning fat. I'm trying to sign up to do an MMA fight in Carlsbad NM on March 25th, and I want to burn as much fat as possible within that time-frame to assure I fight in as low a weight class as possible. What is the proper way for one to lose fat as quickly as possible without sacrificing muscle that has been built prior, or muscle one still wishes to build? I weigh about 191 right now, it would be nice to cut to 185 without losing any muscle.

Thanks,

Jordan

[RayK 0]

Jordan,

Let us begin with how many calories a pound of fat has, which is 3,500. Next, the average adult male only requires around 2,100-2,200 calories a day to maintain his weight. Another thing that needs to be known is how low can the average male cut his calories before he moves into starvation state, which is around 1,300 calories a day. This usually leaves an adult male with an average weight loss of around 1.5-2.5 pounds per week.

You have around 2 months before your competition which would allow you to burn around 16-20 pounds of fat. That is if you are right on track with your dieting and a few other variables. I always use three fundamentals for fat loss and they are;

1. eat a meal every 3-5 hours

2. while trying to lose weight do not go over 500 calories per meal, but closer to 300 would be better, and 200 for snacks

3. drink enough water to keep yourself properly hydrated, fat cannot be easily turned into usable energy without water and the liver.

I recommend a moderate intake of carbohydrates 50-60% of your calorie intake. For fat and protein I recommend around 20% separately for both. To grow a pound of muscle only requires 16 extra calories per day. Also, the average adult male only requires 62 grams of protein a day to not only maintain but to grow new muscle mass. If someone is taking in large amounts of protein they are putting an unneeded demand on their liver, kidneys and gallbladder to process the excess and get rid of the toxic build up of acids. We are by our nature omnivores, which means we can basically eat anything and our body will turn it into what it needs at that time. This is not the most productive way and has negative consequences long term. Even the person that takes in low carbs and high protein will not use all the protein at once. It will either be converted into fat and stored in a fat cell. Or, it will be converted into glucose (sugar) through a process called gluconeogenesis.

In studies done in the 1970's with rats that were properly stimulated it was shown that they could still gain muscle mass while on a starvation diet. This is not the most productive way though as it will have negative consequences to other body parts. I have also found with my clients that a reduced calorie diet, not a starvation diet is much more productive.

An example of a client that I put on a reduced calorie diet, while training once a week. She was 38 years of age at 5ft 4in and weighed 130 pounds. From January 19th until March 17th she lost 18 pounds. She also lost 3 3/4 inches off her waist, 3 1/2 inches off her hips, 2 inches off of each leg, while gaining 1 inch on each arm. If you are working out intensely enough and getting proper rest between sessions, you can still gain muscle while losing fat.

Let me know if this is enough for you to get started on getting leaner.

[Guest ElizabethLee]

Let us begin with how many calories a pound of fat has, which is 3,500.  Next, the average adult male only requires around 2,100-2,200 calories a day to maintain his weight.  Another thing that needs to be known is how low can the average male cut his calories before he moves into starvation state, which is around 1,300 calories a day.  This usually leaves an adult male with an average weight loss of around 1.5-2.5 pounds per week. 

hi Ray!

so you advise Jordan to eat 1300 calories/day, therefore about 800/day less than normal or 5600 less per week ie ~1.5lb loss per week?

What are the two numbers for women again? I know a bit better now how many calories I normally eat.

thank you!

[Carlos 0]

Jordan,

Let us begin with how many calories a pound of fat has, which is 3,500.  Next, the average adult male only requires around 2,100-2,200 calories a day to maintain his weight.  Another thing that needs to be known is how low can the average male cut his calories before he moves into starvation state, which is around 1,300 calories a day.  This usually leaves an adult male with an average weight loss of around 1.5-2.5 pounds per week. 

You have around 2 months before your competition which would allow you to burn around 16-20 pounds of fat.  That is if you are right on track with your dieting and a few other variables.  I always use three fundamentals for fat loss and they are;

1. eat a meal every 3-5 hours

2. while trying to lose weight do not go over 500 calories per meal, but closer to 300 would be better, and 200 for snacks

3. drink enough water to keep yourself properly hydrated, fat cannot be easily turned into usable energy without water and the liver.

I recommend a moderate intake of carbohydrates 50-60% of your calorie intake.  For fat and protein I recommend around 20% separately for both.  To grow a pound of muscle only requires 16 extra calories per day.  Also, the average adult male only requires 62 grams of protein a day to not only maintain but to grow new muscle mass.  If someone is taking in large amounts of protein they are putting an unneeded demand on their liver, kidneys and gallbladder to process the excess and get rid of the toxic build up of acids.  We are by our nature omnivores, which means we can basically eat anything and our body will turn it into what it needs at that time.  This is not the most productive way and has negative consequences long term.  Even the person that takes in low carbs and high protein will not use all the protein at once.  It will either be converted into fat and stored in a fat cell.  Or, it will be converted into glucose (sugar) through a process called gluconeogenesis. 

In studies done in the 1970's with rats that were properly stimulated it was shown that they could still gain muscle mass while on a starvation diet.  This is not the most productive way though as it will have negative consequences to other body parts.  I have also found with my clients that a reduced calorie diet, not a starvation diet is much more productive. 

An example of a client that I put on a reduced calorie diet, while training once a week.  She was 38 years of age at 5ft 4in and weighed 130 pounds.  From January 19th until March 17th she lost 18 pounds.  She also lost 3 3/4 inches off her waist, 3 1/2 inches off her hips, 2 inches off of each leg, while gaining 1 inch on each arm.  If you are working out intensely enough and getting proper rest between sessions, you can still gain muscle while losing fat. 

Let me know if this is enough for you to get started on getting leaner.

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Wow, as always, thanks for an in-depth and very informative reply!

I have a few questions: How much protein a day is too much for long term liver health? I try to get 100-150g a day, but I try to make sure I get plenty of water to make it easier for my liver. I don't understand how 60g of protein a day could be sufficient, because ideally (assuming some arrangements go through) I would be spending 2-3 days a week training with a boxing team, 3-4 doing jiu-jitsu, 2 lifting weights, and cardio-work interspersed, so 6-7 days a week lined out for hard training: how could I survive on such low calories and protein? Or will I be burning so many calories it would be unnecessary to drop my intake so much?

Thanks,

Jordan

[RayK 0]

Elizabeth,

The average for women to maintain their weight is around 1,800 a day and no lower than 1,100. If you go below the 1,100 calorie mark you will move into a starvation state. So the average woman can still use/lose around 1 1/2 pounds of fat a week.

Jordan,

Your kidneys are what actually receive the most harm from excessive acid build up. In the kidneys we have nephrons that act as filters, it is estimated that the average person has around 1 million per kidney when starting life. Every thing we take-in at sometime goes through these nephrons on its way out of the body. The more toxic the intake such as excessive protein causes acid build up. Or, excessive fat which cannot be used directly as energy and must be converted into usable energy through the liver which leaves behind fatty acids to be filtered out of the body through the kidneys/nephrons. All this leads to the nephrons being depleted faster than they have to or need to be.

Know lets get to the fact that muscle is 70% water, 20% proteins and around 10% other nutrients. So where do you see the fact that you need so much protein intake. Also, carbohydrates can be used for protein synthesis by taking their caloric energy if needed to synthesize new proteins.

The human body is very, very efficient and does not require a lot of calories for any activity. On average and hour worth of any type of exercise burns around 300 calories. Of that average around 100-150 are extra calories used for the exercise. The average human burns around 100-150 calories an hour doing daily functions, while awake. Ancient man of 40,000 years ago only required 2,300 calories a day to function. We are becoming more efficient not less efficient as we move further through this evolutional trail. Think of it for a minute, could ancient man, that has been shown to have gone days and sometimes weeks without eating have made it if he required many calories a day? If you could just walk around the block and burn off that cheesecake that you ate, would anybody be fat? We are extremely efficient, and that is how we have made it to this point. You and almost every other human just do not require a lot of calories.

You are also doing an activity that actually waste muscle and slows down your metabolism, your so called "cardio-work". This is one of the biggest myths I have seen in exercise today. When you are doing this work many things happen, one of them being that your body will try to slow down your metabolism. Your body senses that you must be looking for food, if you are looking for food, it is going to make sure you get there. It will primarily use glucose and glycogen and then go to the muscle and derive the amino acids to be converted into glucose, and finally go to the fat cell. This is the worst activity you could do if you want to become larger, stronger and leaner. If you want to enhance your cardio-pulmonary, which is 95.9% genetically given, then attack it through your muscle. Push your muscles to an extreme limit, failure, they in turn will stimulate all the sub-systems to catch up, including the cardio-pulmonary.

Look at this through an evolutional stand point. Ancient man, that we as humans are descendants of, was a hunter, gatherer for most of mans history. The ones with the ability to hold on and store calories for long periods of limited calorie intake or starvation are the ones that survived to pass on progeny. Those that did not have the capacity to store or become more efficient with their calorie consumption did not make it, hence they did not have any progeny, or very few. Now, many thousands of years later, and many more steps through evolution, do you think that we have made it as the only species that is inefficient in calorie use? Could we by some amazing freak of nature have slipped through natures crack and be a contradiction to the laws of nature?

Lets look at another species for contrast, lions. The female lion does almost all the hunting within a pride. She chases for hours, prey that she kills and then drags back to the pride. The male lion of a pride on the other hand sleeps most of the day. He also will sometimes fight with other male lions or animals in a very intense nature for his life, then he rest again. On average the male lion weighs around 180-200 pounds more than the average female lion. Does the male lion do any weight lifting, is he worried about his protein intake?

One more example from a closer species, the gorilla. Have you ever seen the muscular development of a gorilla? Does he work out with weights, or take in large amounts of protein? A gorilla lives mainly off of simple sugars. But, I bet you he has enough muscle and strength to rip your head off.

So what you might say they are different species. Well you would be correct, they are, but lets take a closer look. Within DNA, as you might know, there are four recurring proteins that have the symbols A, C, T, G. DNA is in all living species, and traceable back through a very long path. In our genes the

protein "cytochrome" © has a "paragraph" of 339 letters. Twelve letter changes separate human C from a horses. Only one C letter change separates us humans from monkeys, and only one letter change between horses and donkeys. And only 45 out of 339 from humans and yeast. If we keep going on this trail we will meet the gorilla and the chimpanzee around 7 million years ago. Although we have changed some from our distant relatives, this is still just a blink of an eye in evolutions trail.

Finally, I would recommend that you train once a week with weights to get as strong and fit as you can, within your genetic capacity. Then practice your martial arts and only martial arts until you become as precise as you can. Stop wasting your time doing inefficient activities that are actually blunting your progress.

[Carlos 0]

After reading your arguments, I think I will ease-up on my protein intake, I never knew that carbohydrates could be converted to build muscle; I knew that protein could be converted into an energy source but I never knew the reverse could be done with carbs, so that makes me feel more assured that I don't need to be pounding down protein shakes to preserve and grow my muscles. Do you know anything about the eating habits of Mike Mentzer though? I'm just curious what kind of diet he followed and if he consumed a lot of protein.

When I say "cardio-work" I'm not referring to aerobics or long-distance running, I think both of those methods of exercise are bunk (look at marathon runners, they look like cancer-patients). What I'm talking about is more like short, full-speed wind sprints with even shorter breaks in between. Grappling Magazine did an article called "Combat Conditioning: Myths and Truths of a Fighter's Cardio Training", in it they stated that ATP is your body's "energy currency", "..if you want energy, you must pay for it in ATP" and they stated their are three pathways in the body to replenish ATP: The Phosphagen System uses ATP from your muscles to rapidly provide large amounts of energy, it lasts about 15 seconds. Beyond 15 second demand your body forces you to slow down so the glycolytic system can give you energy from carbs, and beyond 3 minutes your body must slow down for aerobic energy to burn fat and carbs.

They said obviously since fighters go hard for short durations, slow jogging for long distance is pointless because it is an energy pathway that fighters will almost never use. So their answer was "Train your explosive movement and sprints...". They said that the reason we can't draw energy from the Phosphagen Pathway forever is because Lactic Acid breaks down into H+ and Lactate: they said the Lactate won't hurt you but H+ will accumulate in your muscles, create an acidic environment and force our muscles to slow down. So their solution is to do repeated sprints to train your body to get rid of H+ waste via respiratory system and other methods. But they went beyond that to say that they watch tapes of the fighters they train, and create "Fighting Circuits" for each fighter. They look at what muscles are being contracted, how intense, and for how long, and they study how long the moments of rest are in a fight. They then add up all of that and make them a workout. For example: they have one fighter doing suplexes to a 100lb dummy for intervals of time, or Abu Dhabi champion Jeff Monson does 10-second sets on a Nordic Track running machine at 50% incline, and I've been told that three of the top Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu fighters in the world train cardio by having two people spar while the third rides an exercise bike; when one taps out he switches place with the man on the exercise bike, and they do this for an hour straight.

So my question is: should there not be some kind of proper mixture? Of doing high-intensity weight training one day, then maybe high intensity shuttle sprints on another? I just find it hard to believe that cardio-training is ineffective when all professional athletes--boxers, UFC fighters, football players, etc.--must do it.

Also: when I say lift-weights twice a week, I don't mean hit the same muscle groups twice a week. We have a three workout rotation made to hit three different groups of muscles, and they rotate through two workout days a week. So Tuesday chest-back, Friday Legs, Tuesday arms-shoulders, Friday chest-back, so on, and so on. This has worked incredibly well so far; for example, my leg-press workload has gone up from 200lbs to 380lbs now in just about three and a half months, which is shocking for a tall skinny guy like me!

Once again, thank you for your valuable insight.

Jordan

[RayK 0]

Mike Mentzer recommended an average diet similar to the one that I have mentioned. If I remember correctly somewhere around 50-55 percent carbs, 20-25 percent protein and 20-25 percent fat. But from my own research and what I have seen in myself and clients I still recommend the 60-20-20.

There are many pathways within the totality that is called metabolism, but they all operate as one. There is no way to dissect them, although certain activities might use more of one than the other.

I am sure you have felt the burning sensation that goes on within the muscle when one exerts themselves, the lactic burn. There is actually a productive use of lactic acid within the cori cycle. During intense activity our bodies will use ATP for energy through the glycolysis cycle. This will cause lactic acid to accumulate quickly causing the burning sensation that one feels. The lactate is sent through the blood stream down to the liver and converted into pyruvate which is then converted into glucose. The glucose is sent back out of the liver for the working muscle to use. If the session is over the glucose can be stored as glycogen in the muscle. Do not fear lactic acid, and with the cori cycle you should see that you can use it to your benefit.

There is a principle called the SAID principle. Specific Adaptations to Implied Demands. If you want to be the best golfer practice golfing. If you want to be the best quarterback, practice throwing. If you want to be the best martial artist, practice kicking butt! If you practice for a 15 second bout, your body will become accustomed to it. If you practice for a 30 second bout your body will again become accustomed to it. Practice for exactly what you need, and you will become the best that you can, within your genetic limitation. The mixture should be to train with weights to become as strong as you possibly can. With the extra strength and muscle you will be able to generate more force and speed. Then get out of the gym and go practice martial arts until you become the best that you can.

When it comes to how often you workout I can say without a doubt that you are wasting your time and resources by splitting your workouts. The body is one whole unit, and although we can work certain areas locally, it still draws on your systematic resources. Do you think that you have units of recuperative resources for legs, arms, back, chest? No! You have one pool of resources to use for the totality of your body. Every time that you workout you put a demand on your endocrine system, metabolic system, neurological system, basically your whole system. Do not make the mistake of thinking that you are just attacking your muscle. What do you think it is that helps the muscle to function?

When you get a cut on you arm that requires stitches, do you go and have them taken out in two days? It takes around 7-10 days before you would even attempt to remove the stitches from the wound. Every time that you workout you are creating a wound that needs time to heal. This is one of the major reasons that steroids have proliferated into almost every major sport today. The person training for the sport never gets a chance to heal, so they must use a recuperative enhancing drug. The down side is that they will pay for this irrational decision later in life. What you are doing with excessive workouts is blunting your growth, as it could be even better.

Again, your cardio-pulmonary efficiency is 95.9% genetically given, you can enhance it minimally. Also, as I have stated before the most efficient way to enhance it, if you wanted to is through the muscle with resistance training. Sprints that were intense enough to cause a productive gain, are still training your muscle as the primary. Your heart does not do the work by itself, nor could it. So what is it that is making the heart work so intensely? The muscle, as it is the primary system of the functioning body. One down side though of doing sprints as a tool for developing muscle and cardio-pulmonary benefits is the extreme force coming down on the body with every step. Also, if you want to increase the benefits you have to increase the intensity by producing more force. This is where the risk skyrockets and you will most likely get hurt. This is why I say that it is not the most efficient way to produce gains. Even if both ways produced the same results, which they do not, one is much riskier than the other. When the goal of exercise is to enhance the body so that it can enhance your life, I will choose Progressive Exercise every time.

Let me know if I missed anything

[RayK 0]

I think that I have mentioned before that I have been exercising since I was 12 and keeping notes since I was 14. I have learned a lot from many different aspects over the last 25 years.

While looking through some older pictures at my parent's house not to long ago I found some interesting pictures. I have put them on this web-site to try and show the differences of so many different workouts and diets.

The bottom picture of me in the gray is with my younger brother and was taken in the fall of 1987. I was at my heaviest weight of 225 pounds while working out six days a week, three hours a day. I was also eating a high, high protein diet at this time.

The picture of me in the NORTH jersey is during the summer of 1987 while I was playing for the Northern New York All-star high-school team. This was right before I went to college while I was working out 4-5 days a week 1.5-2 hours a day. At this time I weighed 205 pounds. Also, on a high protein diet.

The next picture with my family is this past November with the all ready mentioned exercise program and weighing 161 pounds.

The last picture is just a glimpse of my left arm taken last summer (I was not the focal point of the picture), I think one can see the leanness that I have carried since shifting to the protocol that I use now. At 161 pounds and 37 years of age I am around 5% body-fat. While on a diet consisting of around 50-60% carbs, 20% protein and 20% fat.

I hope this will give some further insight into what I have mentioned before. A person can enhance themselves within their genetic make-up but one can never get more than their gene's will allow. Get what you can from exercise, within one's genetic limits, then get out and enjoy other aspects of life.

[Carlos 0]

After thinking about it I am going to follow your advice on discontinuing the broken up workouts, because in hindsight from looking over the past semester it really is wearing me down. Last spring we worked out once a week and I was always healthy; this last fall we worked out on weights twice a week and I literally had four stomach viruses in the span of four months! College, sparring, and lifting twice a week is too much

I also like your advice on doing multi-joint workouts, because in attempting iso-workouts on machines like a Pec-Deck, or pull-down machine for triceps, the growth was rapid then hit a wall. So I think I will go back to lifting once a week, and doing more compound and less iso-workouts.

And after watching this video http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7...28&q=shogun+rua of two of my favorite fighters train, the SAID principle does make a lot of sense to me now. As in, lift weights to be as strong as you can, then condition yourself by training in what you want to be conditioned for; makes a lot of sense !

As to dieting, from doing rough counting I think I'm down to about 1400-1700 calories a day, eating every 3-4 hours in meals of 300-400 calories. I never realized just how much I eat until I tried to cut down, because I must have been consuming nearly 3000 calories a day prior to this (I have a blazing metabolism). I think I've already lost some fat though because my weight has already gone from being around 191-192 to 188-189.

A question for the pictures: in which phase were you the strongest? Are you stronger now than you ever have been?

Once again, thank you for all the excellent advice!

Jordan

[RayK 0]

Jordan,

I am glad that the advice was helpful for you.

To answer your question, I am strongest I have ever been, right now. Although there is a limit to how much humans can lift (most of us are not going to be pressing cars). After 25 years of lifting weights I still make increases, even if they are small.

[DanReeves 0]

Ray,

First of all, thanks for this essay and for following up on this post. It's helped clarify a lot of these issues in my mind. It also is motivational to hear your passion for human health and strength potential.

Now to my problem: When my girlfriend starting going to the gym a few months ago, I decided to get back in there also (partially to help support her, and partially to bulk up a bit!). A couple weeks ago, I started weight training with your principles in mind. I've always been a fan of high intensity training, especially after reading the essays of Mike Mentzer a few years ago.

The only concern I have so far is that high intensity lifting seems to put a lot of stress on my joints. This last time in the gym, my knee and my elbow were aching, to the point that I ended up skipping exercises that stressed them. I'm a healthy 25-year-old, and my knee and elbow haven't really bothered me until this point. So, I'm concerned that I'm maybe getting back into lifting too quickly - or that my form is to blame. I'm following your advice and trying just the five exercises you mentioned. I keep my movements very slow and measured - about 3-4 seconds for each positive and negative of a lift.

Any tips on how to avoid overstressing joints for someone relatively new to weightlifting?

Thanks again,

Dan

[RayK 0]

Dan,

Without having some further insight into your past it is hard to make a logical decision and give correct advice. With that said, I will do my best with what I have.

Concerning your rep speed, I would recommend going even slower. I would slow down your speed by attempting a 10-15 second positive and negative. One rep would then take around 20-30 seconds to complete. I have found that it is not the weight directly, put the excessive force created by quick turn-arounds. People usually move to quickly and lock their joints out at extension and bounce the weight at flexion. Try to avoid both of these items as they will cause joint discomfort and possible injury. If you have just gotten back into training I do not think you should be up to heavy weights as of yet, but even light weights lifted incorrectly can cause damage. You should also notice that moving this slow decreases the amount of weight that one can lift for reps. Don't worry you are building strength and muscle, not demonstrating psuedo-strength and muscle.

How many days a week are your training? If you are doing more than once a week I would not recommend it. This type of workout is more demanding than anything that I have ever done. It is more intense and tougher than anything I did in the Marine Corps. It will physically take the extra days to fully recuperate. This is not to say that you should be in physical pain or lack any mobility. But, just like a laceration on your arm, it takes more than a few days to fully heal.

Just for insight, I am now lifting the heaviest weights I have ever lifted, without any type of negative joint problems. I move excessively slow, I actually take 30 seconds to do a negative, it is very demanding on the whole body. My pulse rate accelerates from 48 up to 180-200 beats per minute within just a few seconds of doing the first leg-press rep. I can feel the extreme tension on my muscle and joints along with the lactic acid burn. I reach momentary muscular dyskinesia (failure), and can barely walk to the next exercise. This type of abuse cannot be applied very often, or the body will begin to break-down quickly. This description is not where a person just getting into or returning to weight training should be. I do not expect or attempt to start out my clients at what I have described, but we do get there, all ages and sex.

Let me know if this is helpful for you and I appreciate the kind words.

[Carlos 0]

Dan, I'm sure Ray will have an excellent response but I'd also like to throw in my two cents.

I've had acl-reconstruction surgery done on my right knee, but it has never hindered me in following Ray's workout plan. Last Friday I grunted out a slow set of 400lbs on a leg-press machine and never once during, or after, did that knee ever feel awkward or in pain (And I come from a family of arthritic bad knees).

Maybe you're going past the proper range of motion on your workouts. For example, going too low on squats (I've seen some people touch their butt to their heels ) or over-extending your arms in a workout like triceps-extension: doing those things could certainly make someone's joints feel sore!

[DanReeves 0]

Thanks for the advice, Ray and Carlos.

After thinking about my problem more, it occurred to me that my joint problems have all been occurring on my left side (left elbow and left knee). I'm right-handed, and my right leg and arm are much stronger. I think a combination of too much speed and too much weight put a lot of stress on my weak side joints, as I tried to work to failure for all my muscles.

But today, I'm happy to report, I had no joint pain in today's workout. I dropped the weight I was doing and slowed waaaaaaayyyy down - trying 20-30 second repetitions. Just like you said Ray, slowing down that much really kicked my butt. I was sweating, struggling, and breathing hard and moving about as fast as a sloth.

Now, it's time for me to sleep and get some good aerobic exercise.

Dan

[RayK 0]

Great job Dan, it sounds like you are on track. The increase of intensity just by slowing down is amazing. You also did a great job of describing what one goes through just to accomplish a rep/set.

Most of my new clients find it hard to understand when I am attempting to explain the intensity ("one set to full failure cannot do that to me"). But, when they are done with the exercises and crawl out of my office they usually have a good understanding.

I once had a 52 year old male client that was referred to me by his girl-friend. He did not believe anything I had to say while proclaiming that he had lifted weights for 26 years, 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and there was nothing I could do with my 5 exercises to stress him out. In general the first session is more about form and speed than intensity, but not for him. I had one shot to prove to him that intensity was the key. When we finished the 5 exercises of one set pushed to failure, he could not walk nor talk. He literally crawled out of my office and back to his office, his office was in the same complex. Thirty minutes later his girl-friend came over and said, "RAY WHAT DID YOU DO TO HIM? HE IS PASSED OUT ON OUR COUCH!" I told her that was perfectly normal and he would be okay in 30 minutes. Forty-five minutes later he came back over and apologized for being rude and said that he had to go and take his foot out of his mouth. He went on to lose 30 pounds and beat everybody in his racquet-ball league.

[Peter Johnson 0]

Hi, Ray.

Thanks for your postings on this topic!

I think that I have mentioned before that I have been exercising since I was 12 [....].

While looking through some older pictures at my parent's house not to long ago I found some interesting pictures. I have put them on this web-site to try and show the differences of so many different workouts and diets.

I did not any pictures in your message. I also followed the link to your own website, but the pictures there were not the ones you were describing.

Peter

[RayK 0]

To whom it may concern,

I had to remove the pictures mentioned in Peter's post so that I could post other pictures. If anyone else wants to see the picutres from this thread just send me a PM.

[Bob Kolker 0]

The number one fundamental is intensity which has to be all out until one reaches failure. Failure is the sign to the body that it did not have enough resources to withstand the attack and the beginning of the growth process. Everthing else most follow behind this Principle of Principles.

.

I managed to get my blood pressure down to 118/70 and my resting pulse down to 53 bpm without going all out. Duration and moderate effort pays off. My wind is good enough to walk 3.5 mph for five miles non-stop (ten miles with a water break) and all done without that famous slogan from The Breakfast of Masochists -- No Pain No Gain. I can also do thirty miles on a bike at twelve miles an hour non-stop. When I was younger I used to do seventy five and one hundred mile bike trips, essentially non stop. And even then I never did extreme rides. If I did extreme biking I could not even do ten miles. I kept my speed under fifteen mph (except on the downhill runs) and it seemed to work just fine.

I gained strength and endurance with little or no pain. It just took some time to do. It may be that it works for me because am am seventy and I have to be careful not to get exercised induced asthma. I also have to watch my back. My latest exercise is Nordic Walking. It is like cross country skiing without the skis. One uses poles to push along. So in addition to the walking aerobics one also gets some upper body work in.

You are spot on concerning water. One must drink. If one doesn't feel like peeing then he is dehydrating.

I disagree with you on one particular. One can become fit without exercising to the point of failure. Exercising that hard increases the risk of injury. Duration and frequency are what do the job. A day without a twenty mile bike ride is a day without joy.

Bob Kolker

[RayK 0]

I disagree with you on one particular. One can become fit without exercising to the point of failure. Exercising that hard increases the risk of injury. Duration and frequency are what do the job. A day without a twenty mile bike ride is a day without joy.

Bob Kolker

Exercising to failure does not increase the risk of injury. As a person moves closer to failure they will have a smaller amount of strength and will not be able to exert excessive force. It is at the beginning of a rep, any rep, that someone has the most strength and can injure themselves. It is the excessive force or momentum that causes an increase in risk of injury. I have all my clients move at very slow speeds, somewhere between 15-20 seconds per rep.

I have never said that other forms of activity do not produce some results, just that they are not the most efficient. If you are working out hard enough to stimulate an adaptaion you will not be able to do it for long, I guarantee it. People have been trying to substitute duration and frequency for intensity for years, it will never work. The human body will not spend it's resources to add lean body tissue for something that is well within one's capacity to do. And, if you are doing something for a long duration it is obviously within your capacity.

Lets look at it from a economic/business perspective. If you were the owner of a jean manufacturing plant and your plant produced more than enough jeans to fill the deamnd of the market, you would not waste your precious resources building a new plant when the one you have more than fulfills the demand. The body acts in the same efficient manner, it will not waste resources by adapting to something that is well within your resources.

My goal in exercise is to get the most productive results while conserving my resources. I spend 10 minutes once a week to achieve what I have. With all that extra time and the enhanced body I can use my resources on another endeavor.