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Oakes

Mac Users -- Yuppies and Leftists?

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Believe me, most mac users are liberals - Apple's market is high income, tech-sophisticated, and image-conscious, so they attract a lot of effeminate, Starbucks-drinking yuppies :)

By the way, no offense...I'm typing this on a mac, after all!

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Believe me, most mac users are liberals - Apple's market is high income, tech-sophisticated, and image-conscious, so they attract a lot of effeminate, Starbucks-drinking yuppies :)

By the way, no offense...I'm typing this on a mac, after all!

Oh, I believe you, and no offense taken. I was under the impression that Jobs himself had more of a leftist view. I'll have to do some investigating when I get the chance.

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Believe me, most mac users are liberals - Apple's market is high income, tech-sophisticated, and image-conscious, so they attract a lot of effeminate, Starbucks-drinking yuppies :)

Another Mac enthu here.

No offense taken here either. Although I'll note that this is 5 quick (and as usual dedicated) Mac users stepping up here in only a matter of hours.

I live in the Bellevue area in WA. I never see Mac users in Starbucks, but I do see a lot of effeminate, Starbuck-drinking yuppies with PC laptops! No offense to PC users. But I bet there are a lot on both sides of the fence.

Of course I consider the whole state of Washington to be effeminate. Real men live in Texas or Arizona!

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Another Mac enthu here.

No offense taken here either. Although I'll note that this is 5 quick (and as usual dedicated) Mac users stepping up here in only a matter of hours.

I live in the Bellevue area in WA. I never see Mac users in Starbucks, but I do see a lot of effeminate, Starbuck-drinking yuppies with PC laptops! No offense to PC users. But I bet there are a lot on both sides of the fence.

Of course I consider the whole state of Washington to be effeminate. Real men live in Texas or Arizona!

I'm a Mac user as well, and I never see effeminate Mac users either (and I go to Starbucks all the time!). If I were to call any computer user group effeminate, from my experience, it would be the stereotype of some pale nerd who spends all his time in the basement or dungeon of a University tweaking his Linux computer, while having long greasy hair, and wearing a shirt with a big dragon on the back of it. I know not everyone who wears a shirt with a big dragon on it is a nerd, but I've never seen a nerd who didn't wear one of those shirts eventually :)

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My grandfather uses Mac. He worked for NASA, then taught at a local University (Mechanical Engineering). He also worked for the Department of Defense. In no way is my grandfather leftist or liberal, yet he will never touch a PC.

My cousin works in graphics. He has dreams of either creating video games or computer software with intense graphics. He also swears by Mac and can not stand PC's.

I personally use a Mac...in everything I do. Yet even being homosexual and young, I am neither leftist nor effeminate.

Multiple other people that I know do not fall into this category. And as has been stated before, your nerds I find using Linux, your yuppies, your leftist, I find usually using a *gasp* Dell (at the local, "indie" coffee houses and such).

Where did this perception of Mac users come from?

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I applaud Steve Jobs for his stance on public education.

I assume that people here know that Al Gore is one of Apple's 7 Directors.

Unfortunate, but it would take much, much more to get a Mac user to convert. I mean, come on, it's a Mac!

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Unfortunate, but it would take much, much more to get a Mac user to convert. I mean, come on, it's a Mac!

I had a Mac laptop 2 PCs ago. I liked the form factor but hated the fact that so few softwares were available for it. Within less than 2 years, the HD crashed and I lost all my data. Apple charged me $100 to attempt to retrieve it, which they couldn't do. I bought a new HD for it, sold the laptop, and bought a ThinkPad. I haven't looked back to Apple since (well, I did get an iPod from my girlfriend for Valentine's... :) ).

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I just made the switch to Mac last December. (new MacBook Intel Core 2 Duo !) What I was looking for in the switch was: Something a little sleeker and more aesthetic I could carry around, a computer I could start up fast and sleep and wake up frequently, and a no hassle intuitive operating system. I can’t say I’ve been disappointed.

I think the perception of Mac users does have a lot to do with the price being paid for aesthetics, sleekness and simple intuitive interfaces. Perhaps aesthetics aren't being mainstreamed as serving a practical purpose, and people who value them might be thrown into the non-business stereotype or just be considered superficial.

Also, Apple’s advertising campaigns try to portray the company and its users as young and hip… bloggers and musicians unite. In the whole “I’m a Mac and I’m a PC” advertising campaign the middle-aged business-looking guy wearing a suit is being mocked by the t-shirt-wearing young guy. This definitely wouldn’t bolster the impression that Mac users are pro-business.

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The stereotype of mac users I formed way back when, was people who liked to look clever and non-conformist. The arguments over which machine was better would rage between different people in my college crowd, and seemed at the time (mid-late 80s) to focus on the hardware. Then it was MacOS vs. Windows, and at THAT time the Macs we had at work would routinely lock up so hard you'd have to flip the power switch so I had little patience for smug Mac people.

Now of course the Macs run a version of Unix so I have to remind myself that all of that is in the past, and they may be an option in the future. (I'd love nothing better than to see Unix triumph over Windows; I use both regularly. I should point out that this is a technical judgement on my part and not born of some whacko belief that Microsoft is evil.)

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At OCON in San Diego, I saw quite a number of Mac users, non of whom looked like hippies, though that may be a selection problem.

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I don't think, in Apple's ad campaign, that the portrayal of the middle-aged business man could be seen as anti-business. I think they are just selectively targeting their audience...the new, up-and-coming technology users.

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It surprises me that there are so many mac users still around, actually. A couple of weeks ago I went around town trying to price macs. As I gripe about here, I couldn't even find them in stores.

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It surprises me that there are so many mac users still around, actually. A couple of weeks ago I went around town trying to price macs. As I gripe about here, I couldn't even find them in stores.

Peripherally, I'm not sure why you're concerned about Python. I don't use Python but this presumably "official" website shows that it's an open source project, so you should be able to use it/change it at will without proprietary Microsoft aspects. Perhaps you've only been using some particular compilation of it.

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Peripherally, I'm not sure why you're concerned about Python. I don't use Python but this presumably "official" website shows that it's an open source project, so you should be able to use it/change it at will without proprietary Microsoft aspects. Perhaps you've only been using some particular compilation of it.

You mean change the language itself? I hadn't reached that point in my studies yet when Katrina interrupted my college plans, and while I'm not averse to learning that on my own it would take time. Then it would take more time to actually modify both python and pygame. Since other tools are available, I'd rather be working on the actual game. I've already had to wait long enough to start the recode and I need to get this ball rolling.

I'll take another look into switching over to python (or something else) later, but for now I want to get an actual product made.

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You mean change the language itself?

No, I mean, at worst, compiling it yourself. I don't understand why you think you're dependent on an opaque Microsoft DLL when you can compile the entire system from scratch, if it's really open source.

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Guys - I don't understand why we are wondering about this reputation. Jobs deemed it worthwhile to allocate one of only 7 board members to a man with little applicable business knowledge and whose only claim to fame is to be a darling of the Left. He didn't do that for any other reason than because he thought there was a connexion with the Apple customer base.

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Guys - I don't understand why we are wondering about this reputation. Jobs deemed it worthwhile to allocate one of only 7 board members to a man with little applicable business knowledge and whose only claim to fame is to be a darling of the Left. He didn't do that for any other reason than because he thought there was a connexion with the Apple customer base.

Or he could have been acting pragmatically and thinking that, since environmentalism is the new threat to businesses, it would be wise to present Apple as a green company and avoid all sorts of nasty litigations and accusations that could cost Apple millions. Having Al Gore, the Messiah of Gaea, be an Apple board member would promote the idea that Apple is greenest company around. Who could argue with a church that is personally and officially endorsed by Jesus Christ?

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Or he could have been acting pragmatically and thinking that, since environmentalism is the new threat to businesses, it would be wise to present Apple as a green company and avoid all sorts of nasty litigations and accusations that could cost Apple millions.
Apple is a computer company, and is hyper hip and cool to boot. The risk of their being involved in viro-motivated litigation is 0 (why go after Apple when you can go after Exxon?). In my mind, this explanation is not credible.

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Apple is a computer company, and is hyper hip and cool to boot. The risk of their being involved in viro-motivated litigation is 0 (why go after Apple when you can go after Exxon?). In my mind, this explanation is not credible.

OK, but what about sheer political clout? Imagine what lobbying power Apple has through Al Gore!?

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OK, but what about sheer political clout? Imagine what lobbying power Apple has through Al Gore!?

I don't understand your point - Bush has been in power since 2000, with a Rep. leaning congress much of the time. Certainly if Apple was pursuing political clout they would have invited a Republican.

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I don't understand your point - Bush has been in power since 2000, with a Rep. leaning congress much of the time. Certainly if Apple was pursuing political clout they would have invited a Republican.

Let me clarify: my "points" were speculation as to Jobs' motive for appointing Al Gore as a board member. I'm merely pointing out plausible alternatives to your assertion that Gore was appointed because of Apple users' leftist bias. Furthermore, it is not necessary for a political party to be in power in order to pass bills in its favor. More often than not, log-rolling and pork-barreling takes care of this "out-of-power" issue. Democrats and Republicans frequently trade votes and favors, voting for an opponent's measure in return for the opponent's support/vote. Furthermore, numerous additions and amendments to bills are made that are often irrelevant, in order to garner as much support as necessary. Just take a look at the annual budget for a perfect example, or most of the bills passed by Congress.

But in any case, I'm not arguing for one or the other, only that it is not obvious that Gore was appointed a board member because of Apple's leftist customers.

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Guys - I don't understand why we are wondering about this reputation. Jobs deemed it worthwhile to allocate one of only 7 board members to a man with little applicable business knowledge and whose only claim to fame is to be a darling of the Left. He didn't do that for any other reason than because he thought there was a connexion with the Apple customer base.

A chain of reasoning to support this would be nice. And, once that is established, answer one question - so what?

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