Stephen Speicher

Ayaan Hirsi Ali with Bill Maher

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Yet another incredible video of Ayaan Hirsi Ali (maybe she should have her own sub-forum), this time with Bill Maher who, though acting in his usual boisterous manner, himself makes some good points regarding Islam and religion.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali has such class in how she presents herself, which can only serve to emphasize the rightfulness of her ideas.

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Wow, amazing. She's also very elegant and quite beautiful... :)

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I agree Stephen, her composure and delivery are amazing. She just sits there calmly while the guy says there are no signs of extremism in Palestine and then politely disagrees and refutes his claims. In addition, as Joss said, she is very attractive and seeing that only reinforces her message.

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She is eloquent, courageous and gorgeous. The Islamacists had better not touch her.

An idea springs to mind, she, Brigitte Gabriel -- the Lebanese woman who was posted on here in early December -- and Gary Kasparov seem to be all great candidates for Objectivism. I think they should each be given a copy of Atlas Shrugged! These are the kind of minds most worthwhile reaching.

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I laud her for her courage and am glad to hear her saying the things she is saying about Islam, but aside from that, I don't see much to like about her. She describes herself as being politically Left, a "rationalist" who thinks emotions should be seperated from politics, and a "liberal Muslim". I heard her say all these things on a C-SPAN program about her book. I also didn't like the way she described western men as having been "groomed" to control their sexual urges. Sure, she's bright and articulate, but I don't think she has a lot of good ideas at this point. None of that takes away from the value of her speaking the truth about Islam, but other than that I'm not sure she knows what the hell she's talking about.

Link to C-SPAN program audio and video:

http://www.aei.org:80/events/f.video,event...vent_detail.asp

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She is eloquent, courageous and gorgeous. The Islamacists had better not touch her.

An idea springs to mind, she, Brigitte Gabriel -- the Lebanese woman who was posted on here in early December -- and Gary Kasparov seem to be all great candidates for Objectivism. I think they should each be given a copy of Atlas Shrugged! These are the kind of minds most worthwhile reaching.

That's a great idea, but some other FORUM members were way ahead of you on this, at least as far as Aayan Hirsi Ali is concerned. Back in May of last year, on A.West's suggestion, Rose Lake organized an Ayn Rand Bookstore order for a whole array of Objectivist-related material, and many of us participated in this worthwhile project. In September of 2006 we were notified that the books were sent to Ali.

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That's a great idea, but some other FORUM members were way ahead of you on this, at least as far as Aayan Hirsi Ali is concerned. Back in May of last year, on A.West's suggestion, Rose Lake organized an Ayn Rand Bookstore order for a whole array of Objectivist-related material, and many of us participated in this worthwhile project. In September of 2006 we were notified that the books were sent to Ali.

No kidding? Way to go. :)

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I laud her for her courage and am glad to hear her saying the things she is saying about Islam, but aside from that, I don't see much to like about her. She describes herself as being politically Left, a "rationalist" who thinks emotions should be seperated from politics, and a "liberal Muslim". I heard her say all these things on a C-SPAN program about her book. I also didn't like the way she described western men as having been "groomed" to control their sexual urges. Sure, she's bright and articulate, but I don't think she has a lot of good ideas at this point.

Do you think emotions should be united with politics? That is to say, do you think emotions should be factored into political decisions?

By the way, she renounced her faith, she is no longer a Muslim.

Also, keep in mind English is a third language for her. In such instances as these I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.

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I laud her for her courage and am glad to hear her saying the things she is saying about Islam, but aside from that, I don't see much to like about her. She describes herself as being politically Left, a "rationalist" who thinks emotions should be seperated from politics, and a "liberal Muslim". I heard her say all these things on a C-SPAN program about her book. I also didn't like the way she described western men as having been "groomed" to control their sexual urges. Sure, she's bright and articulate, but I don't think she has a lot of good ideas at this point. None of that takes away from the value of her speaking the truth about Islam, but other than that I'm not sure she knows what the hell she's talking about.

Link to C-SPAN program audio and video:

http://www.aei.org:80/events/f.video,event...vent_detail.asp

It doesn't surprise me that, at this point, she describes herself as politically left. She comes from that kind of background, and while she would renounce the idiocy of Islam, like most Christians who renounce their religion, they usually choose some form of ethical humanism--which is nothing but altruism without the religion. Altruism is the dominant ethics in the world, no matter what philosophic form it takes. One has to be exposed to other ideas, usually, before they think to change. It is easy for us to forget how lucky we are to have had the genius of Ayn Rand to help us understand rational egoism. And, unless one has been exposed to Objectivism, rationalism is about all they have if they believe in being rational. As far as I can tell, her "instincts" are good, and she's come a very long way, considering where she started. I would give her the benefit of the doubt. I will be interested to see if, and how, her ideas change as she spends more time in America, AND reads Rand!

As for western men having been groomed to control their sexual urges, I think that is true, as far as it goes. I don't know the context of her remarks, however. Generally speaking, western men aren't rutting dogs. Most do the dance to obtain sex, unless they are rapists, and those are rare (despite what the gender studies fold say). I don't understand what you don't like about that statement, unless it is the characterization "groomed", which may simply be a language thing. Her english isn't American english, and it is her second (third?, fourth?) language, as well. (Granted I haven't seen the CNN interview. I'm on dial-up, and it takes dedicated time for me to download videos.)

Frankly, I'm just happy to see someone with her poise and credentials speaking out against Islam. I loved the way she put Darryl Issa in his PC place (he's my Representative; though, like every one of my elected representatives in Congress, he doesn't represent me). That was worth the time spent downloading the video. I've heard him repeat that canard about the Jews and Christians living in harmony with Muslims several times. I laughed til tears to hear her tell him, "Let's be truthful about this!", going on to discuss the Dhimmi tax. Made my day. :)

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This is from Wikipedia (I AM a lazy researcher :) ):

"Hirsi Ali is a member of the VVD, a Dutch political party that combines conservative views on the economy, foreign policy, crime and immigration with a liberal stance on drugs, abortion and homosexuals."

There was a thread here recently about the Dutch elections, which might elaborate. I'm sure this VVD party is plenty far from perfect but just from that short description I wouldn't be suprised if it is the best party in the Netherlands (kinda like Libertarians in US, I guess). Plus, multiculturalism is one of the fundamentals of today's liberals and Hirsi Ali is one of multiculturalism's most outspoken critics for pretty much all the right reasons as far as I know, so she surely could improve whatever flaws there are in her political philosophy.

Also, it seemed in the video Stephen linked she used the word "liberalism" in a context that implied more classical liberalism than modern liberalism but I'm not sure.

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Also, it seemed in the video Stephen linked she used the word "liberalism" in a context that implied more classical liberalism than modern liberalism but I'm not sure.

If she got exposed to the word "liberalism" in Europe there is a very good chance she means what we here mean by "classical liberal" (someone who would get along relatively well with our founding fathers and might be called "libertarian" here) rather than the modern day semi- or even pure socialist liberal.

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Here is the WD's Statement of Principles: here.

It's a mess of contradictory premises.

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I enjoyed her comments, and given the heroic distance that she's travelled alone, it would be highly injust to criticize her for not being an Objectivist right now, for not having all of the correct philosophic ideas. Her honesty will eventually take her there. She deserves great praise for being where 99.999+% of other Muslims (and Christians) are not: in a position of having checked a number of false fundamental premises and openly rejecting them.

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Yeah, the VVD is kind of a mess, but it's the least bad party we have here.

And over here, liberalism does mean someone who is for free markets and individual rights, so they are probably much closer to being classical liberals. I'm pretty sure Ayaan was one of the more right-wing (i.e. liberal) political figures here, so I think the leftist statement is a bit off. That doesn't really sound like what she was advocating when she was still active in politics in the Netherlands.

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