Microsoft Updates

[RayK 0]

I get automatic updates from Microsoft that usually run just fine. But, I am having a problem attempting to update Microsoft's new Windows XP Service Pack 3. Everytime I load it, something happens that shuts down my computer and will not allow it to re-boot. I have had to go through the safe-mode and do a system recovery to an earlier day. Any insight on why this problem occurs and how to overcome it would be appreciated.

[ewv 0]

I get automatic updates from Microsoft that usually run just fine. But, I am having a problem attempting to update Microsoft's new Windows XP Service Pack 3. Everytime I load it, something happens that shuts down my computer and will not allow it to re-boot. I have had to go through the safe-mode and do a system recovery to an earlier day. Any insight on why this problem occurs and how to overcome it would be appreciated.

I didn't encounter that and don't know what the problem is, but the first thing I would look at is to see if you have enough free space on the system disk and a big enough page file for memory. Then look at the event viewer in the control panel -> administrative tools to see if there were any clues recorded. If the OS crashed there may not be any. You could also search the usoft knowledge base (at their website) to see if this has been previously reported with some answer from usoft.

[RayK 0]

Thank you, ewv, I appreciate your insight.

[Paul's Here 0]

I get automatic updates from Microsoft that usually run just fine. But, I am having a problem attempting to update Microsoft's new Windows XP Service Pack 3. Everytime I load it, something happens that shuts down my computer and will not allow it to re-boot. I have had to go through the safe-mode and do a system recovery to an earlier day. Any insight on why this problem occurs and how to overcome it would be appreciated.

I have read the SP3 gives problems on some computers that have AMD CPUs. It has actually made the system inoperable. So I will not be downloading it. You really don't need it if you've kept up with all the other updates.

[RayK 0]

Paul, what you describe is exactly what I have happen since I have an AMD, thanks.

[PhilO 0]

A friend of mine joked that Microsoft is so annoyed at the rebellion against Vista and the petitions to keep Windows XP available that they released SP3 to kill off Windows XP to force people to move to Vista.

It was, of course, just a joke ...

[Paul's Here 0]

Paul, what you describe is exactly what I have happen since I have an AMD, thanks.

For more info:

XP Service Pack 3 Kills AMD Machines

Windows XP SP3 Causes 'Blue Screen Of Death' On AMD-Based PCs

[Lady Brin 0]

A friend of mine joked that Microsoft is so annoyed at the rebellion against Vista and the petitions to keep Windows XP available that they released SP3 to kill off Windows XP to force people to move to Vista.

It was, of course, just a joke ...

Seriously it was a joke?

Does anyone on the Forum use Vista? If so, what have been your experiences?

[bborg 0]

Seriously it was a joke?

Does anyone on the Forum use Vista? If so, what have been your experiences?

I got Vista with my new laptop...it's pretty, but things freeze up occasionally and it consumes a lot more memory. I made the mistake of only getting 1gb of RAM, because my desktop with XP runs fine with that much. You really need 2 or 3bg for it to run smoothly. I would not recommend getting Vista unless the eye candy means that much to you.

[ewv 0]

Paul, what you describe is exactly what I have happen since I have an AMD, thanks.

The good news is that you know you don't have some nasty problem in your own machine, which is the primary concern. Wait until usoft claims to have fixed its problem and try again.

[ewv 0]

A friend of mine joked that Microsoft is so annoyed at the rebellion against Vista and the petitions to keep Windows XP available that they released SP3 to kill off Windows XP to force people to move to Vista.

It was, of course, just a joke ...

Seriously it was a joke?

Does anyone on the Forum use Vista? If so, what have been your experiences?

No and I don't have any intention of changing any time soon. XP is stable and works for what I need it to do. It will probably be years before Vista is on most home computers.

I remember that Stephen had Vista, but he was interested in exploring the new technology as soon as it became available and was interested in Vista's media features.

[ewv 0]

Seriously it was a joke?

Does anyone on the Forum use Vista? If so, what have been your experiences?

I got Vista with my new laptop...it's pretty, but things freeze up occasionally and it consumes a lot more memory. I made the mistake of only getting 1gb of RAM, because my desktop with XP runs fine with that much. You really need 2 or 3bg for it to run smoothly. I would not recommend getting Vista unless the eye candy means that much to you.

There is a lot more to it than what it looks like, but you probably don't need that either. It will run with 1GB but you need more memory for applications, especially like video. It also requires a lot more disk space.

Here is one comparison of features added in the different versions. The new 'search' facility is reportedly useful, but there isn't anything on this chart that I need that I don't already have in some other way that is probably better anyway, e.g. zonealarm firewall and several anti-spyware programs. There sure isn't anything there that would be worth it to me to pay their prices to 'upgrade' plus the loss of disk space plus what it would take in hardware to support it -- like replacing old laptops that don't have the capacity for more memory. I don't know of any general reason to change to Vista unless you have a demonstrated very specific need for it.

[bborg 0]

There is a lot more to it than what it looks like, but you probably don't need that either. It will run with 1GB but you need more memory for applications, especially like video. It also requires a lot more disk space.

I noticed some things added, including Windows Defender, but I wasn't very impressed. This app could potentially alert you to program actions that you didn't know about, but if you're already careful about the stuff you download and run on your computer this is just a waste of resources. Having a good firewall and anti-virus/spyware program should be enough to take care of those threats.

The one thing I did think was neat was the "save" feature. Vista will save your session and power off, and so when you turn it on it does not need to reboot from scratch. However, I never had a problem with boot time until Vista...XP was much, much faster.

[Paul's Here 0]

My next computer.

[piz 0]

The one thing I did think was neat was the "save" feature. Vista will save your session and power off, and so when you turn it on it does not need to reboot from scratch.

Laptops running all kinds of different operating systems have had "standby" and "hibernate" modes for years. What's bothersome is that desktops didn't do it sooner. It's not like there was any technological reason not to.

[ewv 0]

There is a lot more to it than what it looks like, but you probably don't need that either. It will run with 1GB but you need more memory for applications, especially like video. It also requires a lot more disk space.

I noticed some things added, including Windows Defender, but I wasn't very impressed. This app could potentially alert you to program actions that you didn't know about, but if you're already careful about the stuff you download and run on your computer this is just a waste of resources. Having a good firewall and anti-virus/spyware program should be enough to take care of those threats.

From everything I have seen a firewall like zonealarm and routine AVG and spyware, which I already use, has been better than the Windows attempt at an equivalent for a long time.

The one thing I did think was neat was the "save" feature. Vista will save your session and power off, and so when you turn it on it does not need to reboot from scratch. However, I never had a problem with boot time until Vista...XP was much, much faster.

XP already does that (it's called Hybernate), but it uses disk space equal to the memory size to save the image. You still have to periodically reboot when the system starts to bog down. The boot time depends not just on the OS but also on the applications that have to be loaded, so for me XP already takes a painful amount of time to restart. If usoft wanted to do something really useful, it could fix the age old problem of having to periodically reboot to clean out the system.

[ewv 0]

Laptops running all kinds of different operating systems have had "standby" and "hibernate" modes for years. What's bothersome is that desktops didn't do it sooner. It's not like there was any technological reason not to.

XP standby and hibernate are not restricted to laptops.

[jasonlockwood 0]

My next computer.

I avoided Vista entirely and bought a MacBook Pro earlier this year. I had some minor concerns about compatibility with my Windows files, as well as the effort to migrate my iTunes content, but within a week, I had everything migrated and my iTunes library set up exactly as I had it before.

I couldn't be happier with my personal computer since making the switch. I still have a Windows laptop for work, but I find I do more and more things on the Mac. Yes, Apples are expensive machines, and yes, things like memory upgrades - if you get them from Apple - are outrageously expensive, but I got a good deal from MacMall.com. I also bought the 1TB Time Capsule. I love that I don't have to do anything at all to keep my machine backed up.

A completely worthwhile purchase, in my opinion.

[piz 0]

XP standby and hibernate are not restricted to laptops.

True. I was thinking even further back.

[Arnold 0]

A friend of mine joked that Microsoft is so annoyed at the rebellion against Vista and the petitions to keep Windows XP available that they released SP3 to kill off Windows XP to force people to move to Vista.

It was, of course, just a joke ...

Seriously it was a joke?

Does anyone on the Forum use Vista? If so, what have been your experiences?

I have a good XP desk top, and decided to network a new Vista Desk top while the XP was still running well. I can't say I am too impressed with Vista. They want to keep you right out of operation. For example, there is no progress to watch when one defrags. I also miss being able to shift files as easily as I did with windows explorer in Windows 98. The back-up is a joke. One has little discretion on what to back, and unlike my External Western Digital backup, which is brilliant because it not only backs up the whole computer, but from then on, it only does incremental additions. When the disk fills up, it drops older files. Not Vista. Change one file in your pictures or music, and the whole thing is redone, filling up the disk in a few days, and then it comes to a halt because the disk is full.

In addition there were compatibility problems with my Blu-ray burner, and HD TV card. Hang-ups on shutdown, and a blue screen shutdown on start are other snags encountered. The shop had to do a clean install, which took days to reconfigure to my operation. I had hoped that they would have sorted out most of these problems by now. I do wish that these IT boys had better communication skills. What is it with "Fatal" and "Illegal" errors?

I am not going to touch XP service pack 3, because my XP computer is just fine with current updates. Anyway, this is more a report on my experience that a knowledgeable analysis.

[Carlos 0]

My next computer.

I avoided Vista entirely and bought a MacBook Pro earlier this year. I had some minor concerns about compatibility with my Windows files, as well as the effort to migrate my iTunes content, but within a week, I had everything migrated and my iTunes library set up exactly as I had it before.

I couldn't be happier with my personal computer since making the switch. I still have a Windows laptop for work, but I find I do more and more things on the Mac. Yes, Apples are expensive machines, and yes, things like memory upgrades - if you get them from Apple - are outrageously expensive, but I got a good deal from MacMall.com. I also bought the 1TB Time Capsule. I love that I don't have to do anything at all to keep my machine backed up.

A completely worthwhile purchase, in my opinion.

Yeah, and all the nifty features Vista advertises have been available on the last three generations of OSX (Vista=Diet Tiger). In the time Microsoft spent working on Vista, I think Apple put out five new operating systems, with each one being excellent.

[Carlos 0]

My next computer.

Free Spirit has one, and it is a positively gorgeous and delightful computer (I'm using it right now!). It will be my next computer as well. Considering how much technology has advanced, there is simply no reason for the average user to have a separate tower and monitor; this lovely IMac of her's has freed up a lot of space around and under the desk, and has a big nice screen to boot! It will probably be more expensive than a PC, but as Thoyd Loki explained really well in a separate thread, once you add all the extra features to the PC that are standard on the Mac the price difference becomes insignificant.

[ewv 0]

The back-up is a joke. One has little discretion on what to back, and unlike my External Western Digital backup, which is brilliant because it not only backs up the whole computer, but from then on, it only does incremental additions. When the disk fills up, it drops older files. Not Vista. Change one file in your pictures or music, and the whole thing is redone, filling up the disk in a few days, and then it comes to a halt because the disk is full.

I use the windows backup program that comes with XP in \WINDOWS\system32\ntbackup.exe It allows for full, incremental and differential backups for whatever parts of the file system you tell it, on a file by file basis if you want it to. It has a windows interface but is most easily used for a routine backup strategy from scripts invoking the command line interface. My scripts segment the backup into separate pieces so the backup sets are more easily managed and not too big to fit on DVD arvhives when eventually moved from safe storage on an external drive or another PC on the network. I click one 'shortcut' icon on the desktop and the script does the rest, including compression and naming the backup sets with date and time stamps.

[PhilO 0]

Does anyone on the Forum use Vista? If so, what have been your experiences?

I use the 64 bit version of Vista. Experiences ... many annoyances. I decided to get a Mac Pro, the high end Mac, primarily as a system upgrade and because it's very quiet, and now run Vista in VMWare Fusion.

Note that the following is tangent from the thread topic.

I don't like everything about OS X - the primary annoyance is the unified menu bar on the screen rather than on each individual window - but overall it's a nicer, faster, more stable experience than Vista (not entirely problem free, but speaking relatively.) The experience isn't hugely different because Microsoft ripped off (then licensed) quite a bit from the Mac in the first place, and they are still doing so.

As I have stated before, if Apple licensed OS X for use as an alternative to Windows on general PC hardware, Microsoft would have good reason to worry, but that's unlikely to happen with Steve Jobs running the company.

Incidentally, those who think I have an entirely unreasonable view of Jobs should read the quote from Steve Wozniak's biography regarding one of the earliest occurrences in Woz's and Job's business relationship. Wozniak, who was an electronics genius (I'm not using the term lightly after reading the book) had designed a computer game for Atari, Breakout, using discrete logic chips, not a microprocessor (itself quite incredible). Jobs helped him to assemble his design - no intellectual work, just the manual labor of physically connecting the chips together - and it was finished in 4 days. Jobs had arranged the deal with Atari including the finances. Quoting from iWoz (pp. 147-8):

"The whole thing used forty-five chips, and Steve paid me half the seven hundred bucks he said they paid him for it. (They were paying us based on how few chips I could do it in.) Later I found out he got paid a bit more for it -- like a few thousand dollars -- than he said at the time, but were kids, you know. He got paid one amount, and told me he got paid another. He wasn't honest with me, and I was hurt. But I didn't make a big deal about it or anything.

"Ethics always mattered to me, and I still don't really understand why he would've gotten paid one thing and told me he'd gotten paid another. But, you know, people are different. [...]

"In my head, the guy who'd rather laugh than control things is going to be the one who has the happier life. [...]"

In a very real sense, it was the largely forgotten Steve Wozniak who was the true fountainhead of Apple, something I want to write more about in a review of iWoz.

[Tallulah 0]

My next computer.

I avoided Vista entirely and bought a MacBook Pro earlier this year. I had some minor concerns about compatibility with my Windows files, as well as the effort to migrate my iTunes content, but within a week, I had everything migrated and my iTunes library set up exactly as I had it before.

I couldn't be happier with my personal computer since making the switch. I still have a Windows laptop for work, but I find I do more and more things on the Mac. Yes, Apples are expensive machines, and yes, things like memory upgrades - if you get them from Apple - are outrageously expensive, but I got a good deal from MacMall.com. I also bought the 1TB Time Capsule. I love that I don't have to do anything at all to keep my machine backed up.

A completely worthwhile purchase, in my opinion.

Yeah, and all the nifty features Vista advertises have been available on the last three generations of OSX (Vista=Diet Tiger). In the time Microsoft spent working on Vista, I think Apple put out five new operating systems, with each one being excellent.

I have been contemplating geting a new computer for some time now. I am still using XP and am very leary of upgrading to Vista. I am glad to hear that Mac OS X worked well for you and that you were able to fully migrate all of your Windows based files into your Mac system. I have been checking our Mac prices for sometime, and although they are more expensive than Vista version PCs, I am willing to pay the money in exchange for peace of mind and fewer re-boots.