Microsoft Updates

[PhilO 0]

Curious as to why. I've had Viewsonic (CRT) monitors for years and never had a problem.

Because I had one that did have a problem.

[PhilO 0]

Incidentally, when I said "crazy day trader", that wasn't an entirely serious remark. It is possible to succeed at it, though most do not.

[Arnold 0]

In regard to Vista, my new computer is driving me crazy. Often when I try to edit a folder, it denies me permission. I have gone into 'properties', 'security' and made sure I am owner. I am the only user on the computer. I have noticed that 'permissions' are grayed out, but nothing I do gets them active. I really hate this restriction, and no explanation given on how to gain control. I should mention that these folders were slid over from the XP computer via network. Any ideas to stop this accursed interference would be appreciated.

[ewv 0]

In regard to Vista, my new computer is driving me crazy. Often when I try to edit a folder, it denies me permission. I have gone into 'properties', 'security' and made sure I am owner. I am the only user on the computer. I have noticed that 'permissions' are grayed out, but nothing I do gets them active. I really hate this restriction, and no explanation given on how to gain control. I should mention that these folders were slid over from the XP computer via network. Any ideas to stop this accursed interference would be appreciated.

The XP owner may not be exactly the same (if only internally) as the current "owner". Are they system files? Are you logged in as Administrator?

Sometimes on XP file "permission" problems also arise. I can often get around them by accessing them from the command shell, expecially Bash, which allows changing the permissions to "wide open" with the linux command "chmod 777" even when the usual XP permission changes have no effect. Sometimes the problem goes away after rebooting.

[KPO'M 0]

Curious as to why. I've had Viewsonic (CRT) monitors for years and never had a problem.

Because I had one that did have a problem.

Of course, that is anecdotal. IIRC, Viewsonic had one of the better reputations in CRTs. I'm not sure about LCDs, though.

[KPO'M 0]

I'm not that computer literate. I'd be scared to death I'd never be able to migrate - heck, I've got old Quicken files and some other *stuff* on a '98 that I've never moved. How software would have to be replaced in a switch to a Mac?

Are you running on a PC that's 10 years old?

No, I have a 3-4 year old Pentium 4 Dell 3.0 GHz, 2.99 GHz, 3 GB of Ram with XP. The newer versions of Quicken won't run on 98, but I have archived data on the '98 that needs to be converted; I'm just too lazy to do it. I get scared my 4 year old hard-drive is a disaster waiting to happen although I do keep everything backed-up.

Switching to a Mac is a lot easier now that they use Intel processors. You can install Windows in a separate partition using Apple's Boot Camp software, and for all intents and purposes, your Mac becomes a Windows PC (because it is). The downside is that using Boot Camp, you can't switch back and forth between OS X and Windows without rebooting. A better option for most users is to install VMWare Fusion and install Windows XP within it. It technically isn't running on "emulation," but it is slower than a dedicated PC or Boot Camp since it must share resources with OS X. That said, even on my Macbook Air (the slowest Mac currently offered), XP runs Windows decently (though certainly with a performance drop compared to OS X and the inconvenience of starting up VMWare on a regular basis to open up a new Windows program). If you are coming from a Pentium 4, my guess is that a newer iMac or MacBook Pro would run XP noticeably quicker than your Pentium 4 under Fusion (except graphics-intensive software like games). I wouldn't recommend Vista except under Boot Camp, unless it's just occasional use or you load up the Mac with lots of RAM (as in 4GB or more).

That said, there is a lot more software for Macs than there used to be. Office 2008 is a decent program (though there are quite a few differences compared to Office 2007 for Windows). Tax software is plentiful, though Quicken is only on version 2007 (a completely re-written 2009 version is in the works). Office 2008 is good enough for most users (though there are definite differences and limitations compared to Office 2007 for Windows). Apple's built-in software is better than Windows', though. I prefer Safari to Internet Explorer and Mail to Outlook Express, for instance.

[PhilO 0]

I'm not sure about LCDs, though.

The problem was with an LCD that died prematurely, and Viewsonic's bad attitude about replacing it. I don't need reams of statistics to "anecdoctally" come to my own conclusion that I'd rather deal with other monitor companies.

[DGM 0]

Switching to a Mac is a lot easier now that they use Intel processors. You can install Windows in a separate partition using Apple's Boot Camp software, and for all intents and purposes, your Mac becomes a Windows PC (because it is). The downside is that using Boot Camp, you can't switch back and forth between OS X and Windows without rebooting.

No, the downside is the price on those suckers: http://dungeon-games.com/blog/?p=84

Ye flipping gods.

[KPO'M 0]

Switching to a Mac is a lot easier now that they use Intel processors. You can install Windows in a separate partition using Apple's Boot Camp software, and for all intents and purposes, your Mac becomes a Windows PC (because it is). The downside is that using Boot Camp, you can't switch back and forth between OS X and Windows without rebooting.

No, the downside is the price on those suckers: http://dungeon-games.com/blog/?p=84

Ye flipping gods.

Not really. Feature for feature, Apple products are pretty competitive. Compare the MacBook Air with similar offerings from Lenovo, for instance. Apple doesn't cater to the lower end of the market, but other companies who cater to Apple's end of the market charge Apple prices, as well.

[DGM 0]

Apple doesn't cater to the lower end of the market, but other companies who cater to Apple's end of the market charge Apple prices, as well.

For those of us at the lower end of the market, my point stands. The Apple world has a much higher cost-of-entry than the PC world does, which is a factor for anyone on a tight budget.

And I have to wonder - if Apple products are so competitive with high-end PCs, why aren't they on the shelves alongside them? The only way I can even find a Mac for sale in this town is by going online. That wasn't always the case.

[jasonlockwood 0]

Apple doesn't cater to the lower end of the market, but other companies who cater to Apple's end of the market charge Apple prices, as well.

For those of us at the lower end of the market, my point stands. The Apple world has a much higher cost-of-entry than the PC world does, which is a factor for anyone on a tight budget.

And I have to wonder - if Apple products are so competitive with high-end PCs, why aren't they on the shelves alongside them? The only way I can even find a Mac for sale in this town is by going online. That wasn't always the case.

To be fair, if you have a Best Buy in your town/city, then you can buy Apple products there. I agree that Macs are priced higher, generally speaking, than PCs, but if you're on the low end, the two feasible options are a Mac Mini or a MacBook. If you have an existing keyboard, monitor and mouse, then the Mini is a fairly low cost entry level Mac. I know people who have been perfectly happy with them, knowing in advance that they are not high powered machines.

Personally, I bought my 15" MacBook Pro from MacMall.com and avoided shipping costs and sales tax. I also got a 1 TB Time Capsule from them for my backups. Money well spent in my opinion, but I am admittedly NOT at the low end.

[DGM 0]

To be fair, if you have a Best Buy in your town/city, then you can buy Apple products there.

Not off the shelf, you can't. As I said, you have to look online.

I agree that Macs are priced higher, generally speaking, than PCs, but if you're on the low end, the two feasible options are a Mac Mini or a MacBook.

Did you read the blog post I linked to? I specifically compared the cheapest Mac I could find (which was a Mini) to a PC that was $200 cheaper, and as far as I'm concerned the PC won. And if memory serves, the Mac notebooks start in the $1,000+ area. That's not "budget computer" territory.

[Thoyd Loki 0]

To be fair, if you have a Best Buy in your town/city, then you can buy Apple products there.

Not off the shelf, you can't. As I said, you have to look online.

I agree that Macs are priced higher, generally speaking, than PCs, but if you're on the low end, the two feasible options are a Mac Mini or a MacBook.

Did you read the blog post I linked to? I specifically compared the cheapest Mac I could find (which was a Mini) to a PC that was $200 cheaper, and as far as I'm concerned the PC won. And if memory serves, the Mac notebooks start in the $1,000+ area. That's not "budget computer" territory.

Nope, not budget computer territory.

You don't have a Best Buy, Fry's Electronics, CompUSA, or an actual Apple store in your town or a nearby bigger town? You have to look online. I can think of four different stores off the top of my head I can get them off the shelf.

The Mac Mini is crap, so you're shooting a rabbit with a shotgun with your example. And although I've said this in many other similar threads if you go the iMac route, you are getting a better machine and a much, much, much better operating system than any PC. Coming up on 4 years with my Mac and still not a single hiccup, virus, spyware, blah, blah. I've actually started to pray to an obscure Nordic god to let my machine fail so I can justify getting a new one with the Intel and all that.

If you're on a budget, buy budget. And if you want an actual Mac PC comparison, I gave a much more detailed one some time ago on some Apple/PC thread here a while back.

[KPO'M 0]

And I have to wonder - if Apple products are so competitive with high-end PCs, why aren't they on the shelves alongside them? The only way I can even find a Mac for sale in this town is by going online. That wasn't always the case.

What town is that? I see Macs all over the place here in Chicago. I think most of them are sold online or through Apple's stores, but they have 4 of them here.

[jasonlockwood 0]

To be fair, if you have a Best Buy in your town/city, then you can buy Apple products there.

Not off the shelf, you can't. As I said, you have to look online.

I agree that Macs are priced higher, generally speaking, than PCs, but if you're on the low end, the two feasible options are a Mac Mini or a MacBook.

Did you read the blog post I linked to? I specifically compared the cheapest Mac I could find (which was a Mini) to a PC that was $200 cheaper, and as far as I'm concerned the PC won. And if memory serves, the Mac notebooks start in the $1,000+ area. That's not "budget computer" territory.

If you have a Best Buy, you CAN buy a Mac there. I'm not sure what you mean here.

I didn't read the blog, but no one ever claimed Macs were of comparable price to PCs. They ARE more expensive, but the low end models are not seriously more expensive. Again, if it's not in your budget and it isn't a high value to you, then by all means buy a PC. I have no personal animus against them, I just got tired of the buggy OS and software. I was willing to spend more for a robust machine.

[Jay P 0]

I'm not sure about LCDs, though.

The problem was with an LCD that died prematurely, and Viewsonic's bad attitude about replacing it. I don't need reams of statistics to "anecdoctally" come to my own conclusion that I'd rather deal with other monitor companies.

That's my conclusion about Viewsonic too.

I had a Viewsonic CRT monitor that lasted less than three years. (That seems short to me; my earlier Sony monitor lasted over five years.)

But my really bad experience with them was when I bought the monitor. I was promised a large rebate of over 1/3 of the purchase price. I bought the monitor and sent the rebate paperwork in. After three months of receiving nothing, I called Viewsonic. To make a long story short: I ended up on hold several times for a total of over 2 hours; the people I talked to knew nothing about my purchase and were extremely rude. So either their "rebate offer" was a scam or else this is a company that simply has terrible customer service. (Eventually, the store I bought the monitor from, Comp-USA, made good on the rebate; the store manager indicated to me that this wasn't the first time Viewsonic had stiffed a customer.)

(Happily, my new CRT monitor is a nice Compaq unit, whose manufacturer (HP) was very prompt about sending the promised rebate.)

[DGM 0]

You don't have a Best Buy, Fry's Electronics, CompUSA, or an actual Apple store in your town or a nearby bigger town? You have to look online. I can think of four different stores off the top of my head I can get them off the shelf.

What town is that? I see Macs all over the place here in Chicago. I think most of them are sold online or through Apple's stores, but they have 4 of them here.

Okay, I guess I shouldn't be suprised if stores in larger cities carry them. But they don't here.

I live in Slidell, Louisiana. We have a Best Buy, a Circuit City, two Wal-Marts, a Sam's Club and at least one chain of second-hand computer stores. None of them had Macs when I checked. The closest store I know of that does is a CompUSA that's quite a drive from here (about 80 miles, I think).

The Mac Mini is crap, so you're shooting a rabbit with a shotgun with your example.

Hey, there's no kill like an overkill.

Seriously, though, I picked it because I was looking at this from a tight-budget perspective and it was the cheapest new Mac I found (even at Apple's own online store).

And although I've said this in many other similar threads if you go the iMac route, you are getting a better machine and a much, much, much better operating system than any PC.

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And if you want an actual Mac PC comparison, I gave a much more detailed one some time ago on some Apple/PC thread here a while back.

I won't argue over the operating system, as I haven't used a Mac since childhood and am not qualified to comment. But as far as the hardware goes... If you'll give me a link to that thread, I'll read it.

Coming up on 4 years with my Mac and still not a single hiccup, virus, spyware, blah, blah. I've actually started to pray to an obscure Nordic god to let my machine fail so I can justify getting a new one with the Intel and all that.

If you're on a budget, buy budget.

Oh, agreed. I just don't see the sense - from Apple's perspective - in not having budget models. It seems like they must lose a lot of sales that way; they certainly turned me off. I suppose I could see myself buying a second-hand Mac if I could get a good one cheap, but Apple doesn't get the money that way.

[DGM 0]

They ARE more expensive, but the low end models are not seriously more expensive.

Heh. I guess this depends on your financial perspective. I've seen new PCs as low as $300, and the lowest new Mac I've seen is $600. For some, that is seriously more expensive.

Again, if it's not in your budget and it isn't a high value to you, then by all means buy a PC.

Agreed. But the topic had turned to the advantages and disadvantages of Macs, and price was a disadvantage I thought worth mentioning.

I have no personal animus against them, I just got tired of the buggy OS and software. I was willing to spend more for a robust machine.

<shrug>

I don't really have a personal problem with Macs, either. I just don't have the extra money to spend.

[JeffT 0]

I'm not sure about LCDs, though.

The problem was with an LCD that died prematurely, and Viewsonic's bad attitude about replacing it. I don't need reams of statistics to "anecdoctally" come to my own conclusion that I'd rather deal with other monitor companies.

That's my conclusion about Viewsonic too.

I had a Viewsonic CRT monitor that lasted less than three years. (That seems short to me; my earlier Sony monitor lasted over five years.)

But my really bad experience with them was when I bought the monitor. I was promised a large rebate of over 1/3 of the purchase price. I bought the monitor and sent the rebate paperwork in. After three months of receiving nothing, I called Viewsonic. To make a long story short: I ended up on hold several times for a total of over 2 hours; the people I talked to knew nothing about my purchase and were extremely rude. So either their "rebate offer" was a scam or else this is a company that simply has terrible customer service. (Eventually, the store I bought the monitor from, Comp-USA, made good on the rebate; the store manager indicated to me that this wasn't the first time Viewsonic had stiffed a customer.)

(Happily, my new CRT monitor is a nice Compaq unit, whose manufacturer (HP) was very prompt about sending the promised rebate.)

I also had a bad experience with Viewsonic. I had a PF790 (19" flat screen CRT) which had a sudden pop noise and then thereafter, had severe horizontal linearity problems (for which there was no adjustment control). They agreed to replace it under warranty, but then twice refused to actually do it, sending back the same monitor, untouched, each of the two times I sent it in--each time, with absolutely no communication as to why they weren't repairing or replacing it. They also kept the original receipt and the cables that they required I include when sending it back.

[Ed from OC 0]

I didn't read the blog, but no one ever claimed Macs were of comparable price to PCs. They ARE more expensive, but the low end models are not seriously more expensive. Again, if it's not in your budget and it isn't a high value to you, then by all means buy a PC. I have no personal animus against them, I just got tired of the buggy OS and software. I was willing to spend more for a robust machine.

The upfront cost is more expensive, but look at the cost of ownership and the difference shrinks dramatically. Suppose PC is $1000 less. If I make, say, $40/hour, then I break even if I spend an additional 25 hours just getting the PC to work. I've had my Mac for 4 years, up nearly 100% of the time, and had one crash (when I unplugged my iPod while it was syncing with iTunes) and had one configuration problem (installing an hp printer, when I eventually found that I had to comb through hp's website for the right drivers). Otherwise, my Mac has been next to zero cost in unwanted configuration time, effort, and frustration. Oh yes, I worry much less about viruses and security as well.

So when I look at the overall cost of ownership, I think the Mac is at least as good, if not better.

[DGM 0]

The upfront cost is more expensive, but look at the cost of ownership and the difference shrinks dramatically. Suppose PC is $1000 less. If I make, say, $40/hour, then I break even if I spend an additional 25 hours just getting the PC to work.

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So when I look at the overall cost of ownership, I think the Mac is at least as good, if not better.

Okay, again, I'm talking about this from the point of view of those of us with far less money to throw around. If you're making $40.00 an hour, great for you. But for those of us making less than 20% of that and trying to pay bills, the "upfront cost" of such a large purchase is far more important.

I'm addressing a different context than you seem to be. I don't begrudge you people your money, but please keep in mind that not all of us operate on the same financial scale that you do.

[Ed from OC 0]

The cheapest option used to be to buy components yourself and assemble at home, then put in a low-cost OS (thus avoiding the big cost for Windows). I knew several folks in the mid-90s that did that, though it took a long time and lots of effort. Because the cost has dropped so much in the last 10 years, I don't know if that's still true. Maybe a low-end Dell or whatever would cost just a bit above the off-the-shelf components.

The other option is going used, but be sure to completely scrub the drive to be sure nothing nasty (i.e., viruses) is left over from the prior owner and reload all software.

But yes, Macs do not compete in the ultra-low end. I just disagree with the notion of comparing only the initial sale price. In accounting for the time spent getting a Windows machine to work vs. my Mac, it's no contest, and I'd add a good investment. If a Mac is still running when a PC needs replacement or fixing, should that be included in your calculations?

Apple's reliability and tech support are also an advantage over PCs.

[Arnold 0]

In regard to Vista, my new computer is driving me crazy. Often when I try to edit a folder, it denies me permission. I have gone into 'properties', 'security' and made sure I am owner. I am the only user on the computer. I have noticed that 'permissions' are grayed out, but nothing I do gets them active. I really hate this restriction, and no explanation given on how to gain control. I should mention that these folders were slid over from the XP computer via network. Any ideas to stop this accursed interference would be appreciated.

The XP owner may not be exactly the same (if only internally) as the current "owner". Are they system files? Are you logged in as Administrator?

Sometimes on XP file "permission" problems also arise. I can often get around them by accessing them from the command shell, expecially Bash, which allows changing the permissions to "wide open" with the linux command "chmod 777" even when the usual XP permission changes have no effect. Sometimes the problem goes away after rebooting.

I have been away a few days, hence the delay in my response. The folders are not system, but folders I created, or got from a music download. I am the administrator and I am the only user. One would think that the brains that deny me permission on my own computer, would consider explaining how to gain it. If I had the chance to express my frustration to the creators of an operating system that can forbid anyone short of being an expert, access to his own work, I would exercise the opportunity to it's fullest. Your solutions (and I thank you for taking the time to put them down), are beyond my expertise. If this level is required, then they should advertise that fact. Some of their explanations are incomprehensible to me. They need lessons in communication. Perhaps Mac is the way to go now.

[ewv 0]

In regard to Vista, my new computer is driving me crazy. Often when I try to edit a folder, it denies me permission. I have gone into 'properties', 'security' and made sure I am owner. I am the only user on the computer. I have noticed that 'permissions' are grayed out, but nothing I do gets them active. I really hate this restriction, and no explanation given on how to gain control. I should mention that these folders were slid over from the XP computer via network. Any ideas to stop this accursed interference would be appreciated.

The XP owner may not be exactly the same (if only internally) as the current "owner". Are they system files? Are you logged in as Administrator?

Sometimes on XP file "permission" problems also arise. I can often get around them by accessing them from the command shell, expecially Bash, which allows changing the permissions to "wide open" with the linux command "chmod 777" even when the usual XP permission changes have no effect. Sometimes the problem goes away after rebooting.

I have been away a few days, hence the delay in my response. The folders are not system, but folders I created, or got from a music download. I am the administrator and I am the only user. One would think that the brains that deny me permission on my own computer, would consider explaining how to gain it.

Or maybe not create the problem in the first place?

If I had the chance to express my frustration to the creators of an operating system that can forbid anyone short of being an expert, access to his own work, I would exercise the opportunity to it's fullest. Your solutions (and I thank you for taking the time to put them down), are beyond my expertise. If this level is required, then they should advertise that fact. Some of their explanations are incomprehensible to me. They need lessons in communication. Perhaps Mac is the way to go now.

I suppose by now you have checked to see if rebooting clears it up? Have you tried rebooting in "safe mode" to see if you can control the folders that way so you can create new folders and copy the files before maybe being allowed to delete the ones that are stuck, then reboot normally?

The other possible solutions I had mentioned are not something they would likely want to talk about (especially using the Bash shell from linux by GNU!), partly because the mere mention of them acknowledges a problem which should not exist in the first place and for which no such solutions should be required to be explained. They are things I happened to have noticed over the years as I have contended with such problems as they crop up and which sometimes work. I suppose I shouldn't mention it publicly because they might "fix" this means of getting around their "security". Maybe in Vista they already have.

Try going to the help forum on the usoft web site and see if someone has brought this up before, and if you don't see it, ask yourself.

[Arnold 0]

I suppose by now you have checked to see if rebooting clears it up? Have you tried rebooting in "safe mode" to see if you can control the folders that way so you can create new folders and copy the files before maybe being allowed to delete the ones that are stuck, then reboot normally?

I have worked around the current crop of "permission denied", by copying the file to the desk top, and changing it there. I also managed to delete the old copy after some steps I simply lost track of, followed by a reboot. Next time I will try to keep track of what I do, then reboot after each step. Thanks again ewv.