piz

It's Election Day!

139 posts in this topic

This could be good news. Think of it this way, the media has lied to us about who Obama is for about two years straight. If Obama tries to implement his agenda there is a good chance people will be shocked by what he wants to do and if that happens there could be a revolt. Furthermore, Obama is not a capitalist, and so if he ruins the economy even more it will be on the heads of the leftists where it belongs.

Why do you think the media will not continue to not report what Obama is actually doing? Why not continue to call welfare "tax cuts", etc.? McCain was finished when the financial system collapsed and the media and the voters blamed it on the Republicans and free enterprise, which will continue. Hardly anyone mentioned that the Democrats have been in control of Congress for two years and were previously responsible for the earlier laws that led to the the collapse. Most people still don't have the slightest idea what they have been doing for two years

Most of the people hurt by the Democrats will be picked off one at a time and never heard from, let alone reported in the news. It would take a massive and dramatic nation-wide unevadable disaster like the situation under Jimmy Carter for people to realize there is a connection, and even that doesn't guarantee that they understand. Clinton was re-elected despite the fact that everyone knew he was a weasel -- he was re-elected because he knew how to function as a weasel. How many people, even here on the Forum, know what he was doing through the actions of Federal agencies to screw people? Most people only hear of "big" issues and still don't understand it. FDR was re-elected three times. When people are that gullible and ignorant of policical philosophy you can't assume that disconent against current conditions will lead to a revolt in the right direction.

Another neat thing is that the religious right has been rejected. Isn't it great to finally get rid of them?

Most of them were rejected for the wrong reasons. Being "rid" of them also means being rid of their opposition to the left. Most real conservatives, such as Rush Limbaugh, did not like much of what Bush was doing either. Nothing has changed in the nature of the Republican Party and the ongoing struggle for power within it. Electing progressive New Leftists to control the government did not change that and is not helping, it only keeps the best of what is available from limiting the damage of the worst.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...Everyone just hold your breath for 4 years...And your money.
The first would be fatal, the second will be illegal.

It certainly was a waking nightmare -- he didn't disappoint: Sacrifice, the "end" of Capitalism, retreat from the mideast, concern with the world's opinion, unionization, new entitlements, attacks on business, it was all there. The glowing, vacant faces chanted "yes, we can" in mindless response to the preacher's constant repetition. Yes, the Christian Right is dead, long live the Christian Left. (I hope not).

Yes, and worst of all is "the glowing,_vacant_faces".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...an actual Objectivist or just a fan of Ayn Rands fiction?

Fiction, but never mind the Ayn Rand part. Almost any kind of dramatic rhetoric will do. This week it's Ayn Rand; next week -- who knows? But small 'o' objectivity for actual factual knowledge and experience need not apply for the job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why do you think the media will not continue to not report what Obama is actually doing?

.

.

.

Most of the people hurt by the Democrats will be picked off one at a time and never heard from, let alone reported in the news. It would take a massive and dramatic nation-wide unevadable disaster like the situation under Jimmy Carter for people to realize there is a connection, and even that doesn't guarantee that they understand.

On the other hand, the mainstream media has just about blown what credibility it had left. Assuming a NON-filibuster-proof senate can keep censorship laws out, the mainstream media may not even be the "mainstream" much longer. Which means that the blogosphere, talk radio and other alternatives can can pick up the ball that they dropped.

Oh, Gods. Someone talk some sense into me, because I think I'm this close to starting a political blog.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
McCain was finished when the financial system collapsed and the media and the voters blamed it on the Republicans and free enterprise, which will continue. Hardly anyone mentioned that the Democrats have been in control of Congress for two years and were previously responsible for the earlier laws that led to the the collapse. Most people still don't have the slightest idea what they have been doing for two years

This observation of yours is very disturbing to ponder...

To borrow a term from chess, it looks almost as if we are entering some kind of endgame where the inevitable moves are laid out clearly but unavoidable:

Leftists entrenched in government will pass policy after policy that cause market failures down the road.

With the help of indoctrination through schooling and universities, along with the media's failure to address the issue honestly, people will never connect the dots as to what the true cause of the failures were.

The people, out of fear and ignorance, will want the government to have broader powers in regulating the economy, in hopes of staving off a future market failure.

The Leftists will use their new powers to pass even more policies, and the downward spiral progresses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
McCain was finished when the financial system collapsed and the media and the voters blamed it on the Republicans and free enterprise, which will continue. Hardly anyone mentioned that the Democrats have been in control of Congress for two years and were previously responsible for the earlier laws that led to the the collapse. Most people still don't have the slightest idea what they have been doing for two years

This observation of yours is very disturbing to ponder...

To borrow a term from chess, it looks almost as if we are entering some kind of endgame where the inevitable moves are laid out clearly but unavoidable:

Leftists entrenched in government will pass policy after policy that cause market failures down the road.

With the help of indoctrination through schooling and universities, along with the media's failure to address the issue honestly, people will never connect the dots as to what the true cause of the failures were.

The people, out of fear and ignorance, will want the government to have broader powers in regulating the economy, in hopes of staving off a future market failure.

The Leftists will use their new powers to pass even more policies, and the downward spiral progresses.

No need to worry. We already have the blueprint from the 1930s. More government controls will make things worse. Blame free enterprise. Re-introduce the draft. Get us involved in a war to absorb the unemployed (Iran - Afganistan -- Iraq - North Korea anyone?).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...Everyone just hold your breath for 4 years...And your money.
The first would be fatal, the second will be illegal.

It certainly was a waking nightmare -- he didn't disappoint: Sacrifice, the "end" of Capitalism, retreat from the mideast, concern with the world's opinion, unionization, new entitlements, attacks on business, it was all there. The glowing, vacant faces chanted "yes, we can" in mindless response to the preacher's constant repetition. Yes, the Christian Right is dead, long live the Christian Left. (I hope not).

Yes, and worst of all is "the glowing,_vacant_faces".

Especially grand was the crying face of Jesse Jackson in the crowd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Get us involved in a war to absorb the unemployed (Iran - Afganistan -- Iraq - North Korea anyone?).

Obama? Attack those countries? Never. The only people Obama wants to send Americans fighting against are ........ Americans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, on the bright side people are going to have a tough time playing the race card with a black President.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our only choice is to reapply ourselves to changing the culture. I hope that this victory by Obama will energize Objectivists and well-meaning republicans to the reassertion of their unalienable rights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I want to know is what Obama is going to do next--will he immediately raise taxes? Immediately impose green regulations?

Strangely, I feel less down about him winning than I had expected, and if anything am glad the stress of the uncertain is over. I guess if I've already accepted as a given many bad things about America and Americans then it's hard to feel much of a painful shock about this.

I do feel particularly sorry for my father, as he (with this brother and his father) created their own private oil company and rose from being poor farmers to the wealthy owners of a long running business in a world where most other private oil producers went belly-up. It's horribly to hear how his total taxes add up well beyond the 50% line, which basically means most of his life, time and hard work belong to the state and not him. Do they want a world where every 45 minutes out of an hour of my father's life are given to lazy, shiftless, meth-heads in our local town?

Would the government rather that my family had remained dirt poor farmers in an agricultural area where the economy is collapsing instead of working hard to make their own business and create career opportunities for the local people?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What I want to know is what Obama is going to do next--will he immediately raise taxes? Immediately impose green regulations?

Strangely, I feel less down about him winning than I had expected, and if anything am glad the stress of the uncertain is over. I guess if I've already accepted as a given many bad things about America and Americans then it's hard to feel much of a painful shock about this.

I went to another forum I used to post to and noticed that last December I had said I thought there would be little chance of Obama winning the primaries, because he was such a nincompoop. I thought that Americans would see right through him, so this whole ordeal has been a real bucket of cold water on my face. I was wrong about a lot of things.

Fox News commentators were arguing last night about whether this election proves that America is now center left, or if Obama moved more toward the center during his campaign. If "the center" means pragmatism, that's certainly true, but what's also true of pragmatism is that what's "true" is only true for the moment. His history with socialism is too long to ignore just because for a year he could spout some vague enough language to get the votes he needed for power.

However, what his campaign does show is that he is not going to make it easy for us by coming out with some grand socialist plan his first day in office. He won't take any risks that will get him thrown out. It's going to be a slow, tortuous process. And what's worse is he will have Bush to blame for at least 2 years , when things get worse rather than better. It's possible that one day people will see what he is and run to the Right again, but I don't think that's going to happen until we're neck deep in "change". And I don't know who will be left on the Right to run to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This could be good news. Think of it this way, the media has lied to us about who Obama is for about two years straight. If Obama tries to implement his agenda there is a good chance people will be shocked by what he wants to do and if that happens there could be a revolt. Furthermore, Obama is not a capitalist, and so if he ruins the economy even more it will be on the heads of the leftists where it belongs.

Why do you think the media will not continue to not report what Obama is actually doing?

I'm looking for the positive here, ewv. The media won't change, but the media will be able far less able to hide Obama's actions from us when they see their 401Ks destroyed, or in the act of being destroyed, or when they see the coal industry under attack. I mean, when Democrats control everything they won't be able to hide from the consequences of their actions.

Btw, the left wing media is getting weaker. They are fading away.

Why not continue to call welfare "tax cuts", etc.? McCain was finished when the financial system collapsed and the media and the voters blamed it on the Republicans and free enterprise, which will continue. Hardly anyone mentioned that the Democrats have been in control of Congress for two years and were previously responsible for the earlier laws that led to the the collapse. Most people still don't have the slightest idea what they have been doing for two years

True, but McCain would have been a bad choice to fix anything. It would have been a half way step and he would be labeled a capitalist, when he is clearly not one.

Most of the people hurt by the Democrats will be picked off one at a time and never heard from, let alone reported in the news. It would take a massive and dramatic nation-wide unevadable disaster like the situation under Jimmy Carter for people to realize there is a connection, and even that doesn't guarantee that they understand. Clinton was re-elected despite the fact that everyone knew he was a weasel -- he was re-elected because he knew how to function as a weasel. How many people, even here on the Forum, know what he was doing through the actions of Federal agencies to screw people? Most people only hear of "big" issues and still don't understand it. FDR was re-elected three times. When people are that gullible and ignorant of policical philosophy you can't assume that disconent against current conditions will lead to a revolt in the right direction.

The republicans didn't give us an alternative. Bush was a welfare statist and semi-capitalist. He inflated the money supply to massive levels. He fought the war with half-measures. He instituted a welfare state with religious programs, a terrible mixture. He was a very incompetent president, and he rarely spoke up against his detractors, which is a betrayal of values.

Another neat thing is that the religious right has been rejected. Isn't it great to finally get rid of them?

Most of them were rejected for the wrong reasons.

I don't think this is entirely correct. For example, Matt Damon criticized Sarah Palin for her belief in creationism, and many people reject the religious right for their restrictions on things like abortion, stem cell research, etc. I think a big reason the republicans are under fire is for the right reasons. The wrong reason would be that they believe the republicans were capitalists and therefore capitalism doesn't work.

Being "rid" of them also means being rid of their opposition to the left. Most real conservatives, such as Rush Limbaugh, did not like much of what Bush was doing either. Nothing has changed in the nature of the Republican Party and the ongoing struggle for power within it. Electing progressive New Leftists to control the government did not change that and is not helping, it only keeps the best of what is available from limiting the damage of the worst.

I think getting rid of the religious right will help immensely. It's off our backs. Now we can focus on supporting freedom and capitalism against a left wing agenda! I think we can do it and judging by the number of people who are aware of "the virtue of selfishness" I think we have a better foundation than we've ever had.

One final note, we now have a black (or half black) president. This means we will no longer be haunted by white guilt, where people vote for a black guy because he's black. It's been done. That's water under the bridge. I really think that was a big reason Obama was elected.

Listen, I’m happy this election is over. There is a lot to build on, so let’s build on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
---------

One final note, we now have a black (or half black) president. This means we will no longer be haunted by white guilt, where people vote for a black guy because he's black. It's been done. That's water under the bridge. I really think that was a big reason Obama was elected.

Listen, I’m happy this election is over. There is a lot to build on, so let’s build on it.

According to Fox News, blacks voted for Obama 92 - 8; whites 45 - 55. I think they also said that Hispanics (not sure if they are considered white) voted 75-25 for Obama.

So the race card is not over, yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
According to Fox News, blacks voted for Obama 92 - 8; whites 45 - 55. I think they also said that Hispanics (not sure if they are considered white) voted 75-25 for Obama.

So the race card is not over, yet.

It's over in that there will never again be a "first black president". That's a rationalization that won't exist in any future election. Also, I think a lot of people are going to have to accept that a system that has voted a black man into the most powerful office in the country cannot be "rigged" against blacks. I actually wonder if some black racists aren't disappointed that Obama won.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And what's worse is he will have Bush to blame for at least 2 years , when things get worse rather than better.

Between 1932 and 2006 in sweden we had a totalt of 10 years that were not ruled by the Social Democratic Party. Between 1991-1994 the "right wing" opposition came to power with prime minister Carl Bildt. As I have understood it times were not exactly great, and our "right wing" opposition here is merely a lighter version of the socialist party. So, anyway, they set out to clean up the dirt, best as they could I suppose... In 1994 the socialists took over again, by pointing at the mess they themselves had created.

In -06 a few people were still pointing at the mess over 10 years ago - "remember last time the right wing parties ruled"? It doesnt matter that the Social Democrats have messed up more times than anyone can count. What matters is the fear that they have created of the opposition messing things up and destroying the great welfare that has taken the social democrats so long to build up.

In a similar fashion I think Bush will be blamed for a very long time. There is, after all, a huge financial mess that he is getting blamed for. Here Obama can step in and "save" america from the bad republicans, he can "fix" the mess and "build up" the country and "create" more "welfare".

Another interesting thing to note regarding swedish politics is also that the last election the Social Democrats lost to the opposition. The opposition won by adopting the same rhetoric and the same policies as the Social Democrats, they only made it slightly better.

I think you are going to see the same thing in America. The Democrats are likely to stay in power for a long time and to win the republicans will feel the need to compromise more and more.

The good news is, this can be a great time to spread Objetivism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, on the bright side people are going to have a tough time playing the race card with a black President.

Not at all. Any criticism of the President and his policies will be dismissed as "racism*" and the Democratic majority will be very busy writing laws to outlaw such "hate speech."

____

* Racist (as defined by Thomas Sowell): Anyone who is winning an argument with a Liberal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This could be good news. Think of it this way, the media has lied to us about who Obama is for about two years straight. If Obama tries to implement his agenda there is a good chance people will be shocked by what he wants to do and if that happens there could be a revolt. Furthermore, Obama is not a capitalist, and so if he ruins the economy even more it will be on the heads of the leftists where it belongs.

Why do you think the media will not continue to not report what Obama is actually doing?

I'm looking for the positive here, ewv. The media won't change, but the media will be able far less able to hide Obama's actions from us when they see their 401Ks destroyed, or in the act of being destroyed, or when they see the coal industry under attack. I mean, when Democrats control everything they won't be able to hide from the consequences of their actions.

Sure they can once the "Fairness Doctrine" silences the people who can show how the consequences were the results of the Left and not capitalism.

Btw, the left wing media is getting weaker. They are fading away.

No problem. Obama will arrange a bailout of taxpayer money in exchange for government control.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think getting rid of the religious right will help immensely.

Have we? What is to stop the Republicans from concluding that they lost because they weren't religious enough and they should have nominated someone like Huckabee?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not at all. Any criticism of the President and his policies will be dismissed as "racism*" and the Democratic majority will be very busy writing laws to outlaw such "hate speech."

____

* Racist (as defined by Thomas Sowell): Anyone who is winning an argument with a Liberal.

Ugh. ^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think getting rid of the religious right will help immensely.

Have we? What is to stop the Republicans from concluding that they lost because they weren't religious enough and they should have nominated someone like Huckabee?

Yes, but I think he'd be rejected. People aren't going for the religious right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not at all. Any criticism of the President and his policies will be dismissed as "racism*" and the Democratic majority will be very busy writing laws to outlaw such "hate speech."

Finally, someone who gets it! Most posters on Objectivist forums still seem to be in denial regarding what the nature of an Obama administration will be like. All they seem to think he'll do is raise some taxes. I think we should speak out, but I don't expect our new leaders to just look on and tolerate such speech, as if we had a right to it or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not at all. Any criticism of the President and his policies will be dismissed as "racism*" and the Democratic majority will be very busy writing laws to outlaw such "hate speech."

Finally, someone who gets it! Most posters on Objectivist forums still seem to be in denial regarding what the nature of an Obama administration will be like. All they seem to think he'll do is raise some taxes. I think we should speak out, but I don't expect our new leaders to just look on and tolerate such speech, as if we had a right to it or something.

Excerpt from an MTV interview of Obama
MTV: Our next question is from Matt from Iowa: "If your desire is to spread the wealth around, what incentive is there for me to try to work hard? If I am only going to get more taken away from me, the more money I make, why wouldn't I just slide into a life of relaxation and let rich people take care of me? And a lot of people are asking similar questions, and I wanted you to specify. What does this mean exactly?"

Obama: What is amazing to me is this whole notion that somehow everybody is just looking out for themselves ... You don't just give tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires. What you do is make sure the tax code is fair ... So this idea, that somehow everybody is just on their own and shouldn't be concerned about other people who are coming up behind them, that's the kind of attitude that I want to end when I am president.

"That's the kind of attitude that I want to end when I am president." I don't think many - here or elsewhere - have totally digested the implications of that and the many, many similar statments Obama has made.

In honor of president-elect Cocteau...erm, I mean Obama...I'm watching Demolition Man. We're going to need a John Spartan sooner than most think. I'd even settle for a Simon Phoenix.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not at all. Any criticism of the President and his policies will be dismissed as "racism*" and the Democratic majority will be very busy writing laws to outlaw such "hate speech."

Finally, someone who gets it! Most posters on Objectivist forums still seem to be in denial regarding what the nature of an Obama administration will be like. All they seem to think he'll do is raise some taxes. I think we should speak out, but I don't expect our new leaders to just look on and tolerate such speech, as if we had a right to it or something.

You're right, but there are others on here in addition to Betsy who get it. Their posts are there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites