PhilO

Good WSJ article advocating gold standard

46 posts in this topic

It occurs to me that with current technology we have the ability to go to an electronic gold standard. This would involve having private holdings of real gold assets at a private "bank" (offshore for protection of the assets from confiscation) and performing electronic transactions using the real-time current value of the gold in terms of the fiat money of the country in which it is being spent. Right now a thousand bucks get's you a 1 oz minted coin at Blanchard - you have the gold shipped out to this version of the "Midas Bank" if you will, and then do all of your purchasing using electronic means.

Forms of this kind of economic activity both above ground and under, are happening now, an example of the former would be Ebay and Paypal. In most cases the assets are not gold or coins, but other items, however the concept is the same. My asset has a certain worth based on a combination of what I wan to get for it, and what others are willing to pay. At some point I may have an exchange and I now have a deposit in my account. Expand this to precious metals, gems, etc. and act essentially in a manner like a classical bank, and you have the electronic equivalent of a private gold standard that exists despite the inflationary intentions of governments.

Now, if enough people get in on it, the government will either relent and move towards a more stable monetary policy in order to survive (don't hold your breath on that on), or it sends out the G-men to confiscate the gold as happened in the thirties (see this interesting article over at Blanchard about their perspective on the likelihood of gold confiscation: <Gold Confiscation -What Do We Really Think?>?). In either case, having your gold stored offshore yet having the electronic equivalent of the current value of the fiat money means that perhaps you can buy some bread today, and you don't have to take a wheelbarrow of greenbacks to do it - and the actual value of your money is not being stolen from you via inflation.

The big question is where you might set up such a system - Switzerland perhaps.

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David, I agree that we have the technology to set up the things that you mentioned and that it is already happening. But at this point it is just a band-aid on a massive wound. Yes, while change is happening we should try and protect ourselves in any way possible. But unless the underlying fundamentals of a society are changed, it will be just you (and some others) surrounded by a world of crap (I have a better word, but I strive to keep G rating). And how long can that last?

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Forms of this kind of economic activity both above ground and under, are happening now, an example of the former would be Ebay and Paypal.

About a year ago, a FORUM member shared her experiences in regularly using gold as currency for near-everyday items. It's certainly possible, and there seem to be people interested in doing it. However, the operation ran into legal issues (mostly turf defense by Gov, if I'm remembering correctly.)

The big question is where you might set up such a system - Switzerland perhaps
.

Their are nations with far attractive banking practices than Switzerland does.

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I'm not saying it is an ideal situation, just that we have here a real means of striking against the fiat monetary system.

Frankly, I am starting to get tired of inaction - knowing what is right and wrong is great as far as it goes, but producers, achievers, and builders should not stop because there is a great evil facing us, rather, I would to steel my face, pick up whatever sword is available (metaphorically speaking...for now at least), and go to battle intelligently.

Which brings me back to gold. When people begin to use their paper money for fuel in their fireplaces (because they can't afford to buy oil or gas for their furnace) because stacks of money are more readily available than wood (this actually happened in the Wiemar Republic) then they would be apt to start thinking about that "new fangled system were money is real" - I suspect at that point the popularity of such a concept would rise significantly.

It just seem to me that, at some point or another the tea has got to be thrown into the bay as it were.

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It just seem to me that, at some point or another the tea has got to be thrown into the bay as it were.

I agree, and I think that time is near.

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I agree, and I think that time is near.

Something has to come. Let's hope it will be something like a million families taking over the Mall in DC for a weekend, protesting the next stimulus bill (we're going to "need" a few more of these things.)

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Something has to come. Let's hope it will be something like a million families taking over the Mall in DC for a weekend, protesting the next stimulus bill (we're going to "need" a few more of these things.)

Sen. Barbara Boxer has already said that the 'stimulus' should have been much larger and that this one is only "a critical first step".

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Something has to come. Let's hope it will be something like a million families taking over the Mall in DC for a weekend, protesting the next stimulus bill (we're going to "need" a few more of these things.)

Sen. Barbara Boxer has already said that the 'stimulus' should have been much larger and that this one is only "a critical first step".

The "critical step" of her falling on her own sword. I look forward to watching it happen.

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Something has to come. Let's hope it will be something like a million families taking over the Mall in DC for a weekend, protesting the next stimulus bill (we're going to "need" a few more of these things.)

Sen. Barbara Boxer has already said that the 'stimulus' should have been much larger and that this one is only "a critical first step".

You just know these people are having multiple orgasms whenever they realize that they're leveraging the average greedy American's fear of economic collapse to bring about their commune -- the males, too!

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When people begin to use their paper money for fuel in their fireplaces (because they can't afford to buy oil or gas for their furnace) because stacks of money are more readily available than wood (this actually happened in the Wiemar Republic) then they would be apt to start thinking about that "new fangled system were money is real".

Having gold will do you no good if there is nobody producing and delivering the goods you need to survive. For centuries people in India owned and festooned themselves with gold jewelry yet starved to death.

As a personal, defensive measure, investing in gold (I use GLD - the gold EFT) has some merit as does having some gold coins as emergency currency. Even then, if there is total economic collapse as in Atlas Shrugged, all production and trade would break down and hoarding canned food would help you more than hoarding gold. Then, the best strategy would be keeping a low profile and blending in in a urban area that still had access to the requirements of life or leading a more primitive self-sufficient life in a remote area where you would not likely be found or disturbed.

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Agreed. I still hold hope that it does not get that bad, and the comment reflected that perspective. But of course the materials of survival are the ultimate currency when total breakdown occurs.

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...if there is total economic collapse as in Atlas Shrugged, all production and trade would break down and hoarding canned food would help you more than hoarding gold. Then, the best strategy would be keeping a low profile and blending in in a urban area that still had access to the requirements of life or leading a more primitive self-sufficient life in a remote area where you would not likely be found or disturbed.

Definitely the latter rather than the former. In an urban setting, your precious reserves of canned food, medicine, and fresh water will be seized by the local bossman for the "common good".

As a side note, I'm starting to track my net worth / wealth in gold grams now.

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... if there is total economic collapse as in Atlas Shrugged, all production and trade would break down and hoarding canned food would help you more than hoarding gold. Then, the best strategy would be keeping a low profile and blending in in a urban area that still had access to the requirements of life or leading a more primitive self-sufficient life in a remote area where you would not likely be found or disturbed.

When the lights went out in NYC in Atlas Shrugged it meant the death of the city, including the loss of food supply. And there is no "remote" area where one can by self-sufficient and not likely to be found or disturbed. Remote areas are closely monitored and controlled by the government on behalf of viro laws.

Anyone who tried to maintain a successful, independent life in such conditions would stand out more than ever, not blend in with a low profile. He would immediately be noticed wherever he was even if he didn't speak out, and would be a target not just of the government but also the roving gangs. There are no "ray screens".

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... if there is total economic collapse as in Atlas Shrugged, all production and trade would break down and hoarding canned food would help you more than hoarding gold. Then, the best strategy would be keeping a low profile and blending in in a urban area that still had access to the requirements of life or leading a more primitive self-sufficient life in a remote area where you would not likely be found or disturbed.

When the lights went out in NYC in Atlas Shrugged it meant the death of the city, including the loss of food supply. And there is no "remote" area where one can by self-sufficient and not likely to be found or disturbed. Remote areas are closely monitored and controlled by the government on behalf of viro laws.

Anyone who tried to maintain a successful, independent life in such conditions would stand out more than ever, not blend in with a low profile. He would immediately be noticed wherever he was even if he didn't speak out, and would be a target not just of the government but also the roving gangs. There are no "ray screens".

I believe by "maintain a successful, independent life" what was meant was successful and independent "within the confines of a world gone mad". Obviously not ideal conditions, but I think with a group of like-minded individuals who have the intelligence to recognize that there are roving gangs of thugs, and "governmental" gangs of thugs, one could get by. Fire-power would be needed of course, and lets not forget that the government would also be gravely limited in its ability to enforce anything at this time as it too would be gravely damaged or even completely missing. Environmentalists will quickly become irrelevant when there is mass starvation and chaos in the streets.

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... if there is total economic collapse as in Atlas Shrugged, all production and trade would break down and hoarding canned food would help you more than hoarding gold. Then, the best strategy would be keeping a low profile and blending in in a urban area that still had access to the requirements of life or leading a more primitive self-sufficient life in a remote area where you would not likely be found or disturbed.

When the lights went out in NYC in Atlas Shrugged it meant the death of the city, including the loss of food supply. And there is no "remote" area where one can by self-sufficient and not likely to be found or disturbed. Remote areas are closely monitored and controlled by the government on behalf of viro laws.

Anyone who tried to maintain a successful, independent life in such conditions would stand out more than ever, not blend in with a low profile. He would immediately be noticed wherever he was even if he didn't speak out, and would be a target not just of the government but also the roving gangs. There are no "ray screens".

As in Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

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... if there is total economic collapse as in Atlas Shrugged, all production and trade would break down and hoarding canned food would help you more than hoarding gold. Then, the best strategy would be keeping a low profile and blending in in a urban area that still had access to the requirements of life or leading a more primitive self-sufficient life in a remote area where you would not likely be found or disturbed.

When the lights went out in NYC in Atlas Shrugged it meant the death of the city, including the loss of food supply. And there is no "remote" area where one can by self-sufficient and not likely to be found or disturbed. Remote areas are closely monitored and controlled by the government on behalf of viro laws.

Anyone who tried to maintain a successful, independent life in such conditions would stand out more than ever, not blend in with a low profile. He would immediately be noticed wherever he was even if he didn't speak out, and would be a target not just of the government but also the roving gangs. There are no "ray screens".

I believe by "maintain a successful, independent life" what was meant was successful and independent "within the confines of a world gone mad". Obviously not ideal conditions, but I think with a group of like-minded individuals who have the intelligence to recognize that there are roving gangs of thugs, and "governmental" gangs of thugs, one could get by. Fire-power would be needed of course, and lets not forget that the government would also be gravely limited in its ability to enforce anything at this time as it too would be gravely damaged or even completely missing. Environmentalists will quickly become irrelevant when there is mass starvation and chaos in the streets.

As in Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia, for instance? Got any real-life examples of the power structure becoming irrelevant during an economic crisis? It is specifically during the crises that the independent become extinguished. Very few survive.

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David, I would offer that you study the Russian Revolution of 1917, from Lenin to Stalin and everything that followed. The Russian Revolution was almost one hundred years ago and the people of Russia could not escape from being noticed. Today there is obviously a lot more technology and the ability to go unnoticed has extremely decreased. Either way (even if there was another place) people will still have to struggle/fight to stay alive and free.

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Environmentalists will quickly become irrelevant when there is mass starvation and chaos in the streets.

The way religion became irrelevant when people were starving in the streets in the Middle Ages?

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I think with a group of like-minded individuals who have the intelligence to recognize that there are roving gangs of thugs, and "governmental" gangs of thugs, one could get by.

The way like-minded individuals in Rome with the intelligence to recognize there were roving gangs of Huns got by?

Fire-power would be needed of course, and lets not forget that the government would also be gravely limited in its ability to enforce anything at this time as it too would be gravely damaged or even completely missing.

How would a government be completely missing? Does it get any better when the normal bureaucratic procedures are increasingly replaced by lynch mobs in the same function? Don't be so nonchalant about trying to live surrounded by 'firepower'. It is bad enough with some of the thugs we have in government agencies now.

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I think with a group of like-minded individuals who have the intelligence to recognize that there are roving gangs of thugs, and "governmental" gangs of thugs, one could get by.

The way like-minded individuals in Rome with the intelligence to recognize there were roving gangs of Huns got by?

Fire-power would be needed of course, and lets not forget that the government would also be gravely limited in its ability to enforce anything at this time as it too would be gravely damaged or even completely missing.

How would a government be completely missing? Does it get any better when the normal bureaucratic procedures are increasingly replaced by lynch mobs in the same function? Don't be so nonchalant about trying to live surrounded by 'firepower'. It is bad enough with some of the thugs we have in government agencies now.

Well then what do you suggest? Yes, we see from the past that this situation is not good, okay it is what it is..., a rational being does not sit, sour, and soak in self pity about what "might have been", but instead creates a plan, and then works that plan. Okay, my ideas may not be so great, I have not heard anyone else put out anything better... I am simply advocating planning for the worst, while hoping and working for the best. I most certainly do not want to have to build an underground "Ember" city, I don't want to have to face a gang of thugs - but I may have to do (or attempt) those things.

If we are faced with a mob of unthinking people then what do we do as thinking people? If we are faced with a government of elitists thugs, what do we do as rational people? I for one, will do something to the best of my ability - I may fail...but I will not quit.

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I think with a group of like-minded individuals who have the intelligence to recognize that there are roving gangs of thugs, and "governmental" gangs of thugs, one could get by.

The way like-minded individuals in Rome with the intelligence to recognize there were roving gangs of Huns got by?

Fire-power would be needed of course, and lets not forget that the government would also be gravely limited in its ability to enforce anything at this time as it too would be gravely damaged or even completely missing.

How would a government be completely missing? Does it get any better when the normal bureaucratic procedures are increasingly replaced by lynch mobs in the same function? Don't be so nonchalant about trying to live surrounded by 'firepower'. It is bad enough with some of the thugs we have in government agencies now.

Well then what do you suggest? Yes, we see from the past that this situation is not good, okay it is what it is..., a rational being does not sit, sour, and soak in self pity about what "might have been", but instead creates a plan, and then works that plan. Okay, my ideas may not be so great, I have not heard anyone else put out anything better... I am simply advocating planning for the worst, while hoping and working for the best. I most certainly do not want to have to build an underground "Ember" city, I don't want to have to face a gang of thugs - but I may have to do (or attempt) those things.

If we are faced with a mob of unthinking people then what do we do as thinking people? If we are faced with a government of elitists thugs, what do we do as rational people? I for one, will do something to the best of my ability - I may fail...but I will not quit.

You have the right attitude and goal, but heroic statements aren't a substitute for an accurate assessment of the threats, and realistic plans have to be actually made to the extent possible. The frustration is that only so much is possible. Not every problem has an ideal solution. On a personal level we can hope that it doesn't get as bad as what has been described here within our lifetimes. That is most important for us, but not the general solution that is needed for the youngest and future generations. In fact, there are already pockets of devastation from the government where it is very bad. People who do have some kind of practical plans are not likely to publish them on an internationally accessible forum.

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People who do have some kind of practical plans are not likely to publish them on an internationally accessible forum.

True, however I think back to the pamphleteers of our Forefathers...

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People who do have some kind of practical plans are not likely to publish them on an internationally accessible forum.

True, however I think back to the pamphleteers of our Forefathers...

I don't think even they would distribute personal plans for the safety of themselves and their families in pamphlets. A lot of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were eventually personally destroyed by the British. And that was with the British government weeks or months away across the ocean and no viro surveillance in what was then truly remote country. It was all pre-Orwell.

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