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#1 Joss Delage

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 02:58 PM

Why do countries not protect their embassies more effectively? It seems like any ragtag group of "student" can invade embassies nowadays. What the heck?
"The greatest productive force is human selfishness."
Robert A. Heinlein

#2 Paul's Here

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 02:21 AM

It's supposed to be up to the country where the embassy is to protect it.
ANTHEM
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and the sight of my eyes grants beauty to the earth.


It is my ears which hear,
and the hearing of my ears gives its song to the world.


It is my mind which thinks,
and the judgment of my mind is the only searchlight that can find the truth."


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#3 Joss Delage

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 03:50 AM

Outside the embassy, fine - but once people breach into the embassy...?
"The greatest productive force is human selfishness."
Robert A. Heinlein

#4 Paul's Here

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 01:32 AM

Not sure what you mean? Do you expect an army to be present inside an embassy?
ANTHEM
"It is my eyes which see,
and the sight of my eyes grants beauty to the earth.


It is my ears which hear,
and the hearing of my ears gives its song to the world.


It is my mind which thinks,
and the judgment of my mind is the only searchlight that can find the truth."


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"Life, if well spent, is long." - Leonardo

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(Avatar shows the Milky Way and our place in it.)

#5 Joss Delage

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 05:19 PM

You don't need an army. You need a few soldiers with machine guns. The point isn't to resist a full fledged assault by a military force, it is to repeal invasion by looters / hooligans.
"The greatest productive force is human selfishness."
Robert A. Heinlein

#6 Paul's Here

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 03:04 AM

Undoubtedly that would stop the civilians from invading the embassy, but what do you think the country's military would do if their civilians were being killed in an embassy? I don't think they'd just sit back and watch.
ANTHEM
"It is my eyes which see,
and the sight of my eyes grants beauty to the earth.


It is my ears which hear,
and the hearing of my ears gives its song to the world.


It is my mind which thinks,
and the judgment of my mind is the only searchlight that can find the truth."


---------

"Life, if well spent, is long." - Leonardo

--------------------
(Avatar shows the Milky Way and our place in it.)

#7 JohnRgt

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 06:29 AM

We would . . .
Fear is the passion of slaves. -- Patrick Henry

#8 L-C

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 02:33 PM

How civilian is someone who storms a foreign embassy, though?

#9 ruveyn ben yosef

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 02:50 PM

Not sure what you mean? Do you expect an army to be present inside an embassy?


Why not? An embassy, under current diplomatic protocols, is sovereign territory of the nation it represents.

When inside an American embassy one is in sovereign U.S. territory.

This privilege can be revoked on notice, by the government of the host country.


ruveyn

#10 rtg24

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 07:26 AM

Undoubtedly that would stop the civilians from invading the embassy, but what do you think the country's military would do if their civilians were being killed in an embassy? I don't think they'd just sit back and watch.

I agree, although it would not be the military but the country's political balance which would be affected. Kill a few students and they go from hairy vandals to martyrs justifying strigent measures and further apologizing and unjustified rewards from Western governments. I shudder to think what would have happened should the British shoot Iranian invaders, even if it was in their right to do so. Look at how the shooting of a few Pakistani soldiers in a war zone has lit a US foreign policy fire. Remember how Kaddafi organised for Lockerbie in retaliation for Western action. The Iranians have proven they are willing to act anywhere in the world - they even blew up Jewish Argentinians in Buenos Aires with impunity! I strongly suspect the students were if not manipulated, at least encouraged by the Iranian authorities. I think Iran is playing the same game Hitler was with Chamberlain.

There's no real solution, other than not to have embassies in places which are quite clearly unsuitable for any kind of political relations.

We seem, however, to be better politicians nowadays. Previous displays of strength served merely as excuses to turn allies against us (see e.g. how Turkey has used the flotilla as an excuse to sever relationships with Israel). This time, "someone" appears to be waging a covert war against Iran using their methods: IT piracy (a worm incapacitating their nuclear production facilities), assassination of key scientists (either outright, or through manipulation of the Iranian secret police into doing it themselves), and now large explosions in key places. This is encouraging and I hope this effort succeeds without widespread nuclear warfare, which would invariably have negative side effects both direct (radiation clouds, etc.) and indirect (the Straight of Hormuz, if closed/damaged, will drive oil to 200+).

#11 Joss Delage

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 08:52 PM

Back to the top. We should let unarmed looters kill our embassy personnel without doing anything? I don't understand.
"The greatest productive force is human selfishness."
Robert A. Heinlein

#12 ruveyn ben yosef

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 09:44 PM

Back to the top. We should let unarmed looters kill our embassy personnel without doing anything? I don't understand.


Additional outrage. The body of the dead ambassador was dragged through the streets by a mob.

If wishes could kill there would not be one Muslim left alive on the planet.

ruveyn

#13 Joss Delage

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 11:03 PM

Well, I don't associate myself with that. But we should protect our embassies with as much force as is necessary. This is disgraceful.
"The greatest productive force is human selfishness."
Robert A. Heinlein

#14 mcvideo

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 05:22 AM

There used to be Marines stationed at US embassies. If they're still there, the rules of engagement seem to have preemptive surrender at the top of the list.
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#15 ewv

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 06:01 AM

There used to be Marines stationed at US embassies. If they're still there, the rules of engagement seem to have preemptive surrender at the top of the list.


Remember the Clinton era "They're our planes now"? This is "They're our marines now".

#16 JohnRgt

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:12 PM


Back to the top. We should let unarmed looters kill our embassy personnel without doing anything? I don't understand.


Additional outrage. The body of the dead ambassador was dragged through the streets by a mob.

If wishes could kill there would not be one Muslim left alive on the planet.

ruveyn


WOW!
Fear is the passion of slaves. -- Patrick Henry

#17 ewv

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 07:54 PM

This just in: An area in the mideast is believed to have been found with no crazed arabs rioting in the streets. The reports are being carefully checked with GPS and other measures to determine if the explanation is that there are no streets there so that rioting there is only in the desert. Diplomats are studying the situation to determine an appropriate response. In the meantime your are urged to remain calm and not make decisions.

#18 Joss Delage

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 08:58 PM



Back to the top. We should let unarmed looters kill our embassy personnel without doing anything? I don't understand.


Additional outrage. The body of the dead ambassador was dragged through the streets by a mob.

If wishes could kill there would not be one Muslim left alive on the planet.

ruveyn


WOW!


Yes, hopefully there's a way to discuss that without calling for the extermination of anyone.
"The greatest productive force is human selfishness."
Robert A. Heinlein

#19 darnoconrad

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 09:08 PM

This just in: An area in the mideast is believed to have been found with no crazed arabs rioting in the streets. The reports are being carefully checked with GPS and other measures to determine if the explanation is that there are no streets there so that rioting there is only in the desert. Diplomats are studying the situation to determine an appropriate response. In the meantime your are urged to remain calm and not make decisions.


Update: Obama just apologized to this region and promised $10M in aid to build streets and provide American flags for burning. Obama has temporarily suspended campaigning for re-election to meet with the local tribal leader of the area. Obama has used this occasion to denounce capitalists for neglecting this area, and for not building their fair share. In the meantime, Obama has volunteered Wall St, with free parking in any local skyscraper, for any airplane used to get there. Jay-Z was re-assured that Obama will still make it for the fund raiser.

In related news; several reports have surfaced that the Americans killed and dragged through the streets were too thin and withered away too quickly while being dragged. This, said one onlooker, is a huge disappointment because he brought his kids to a riot and they were expecting a longer show; "They did not even have enough time to start drooling in excitement." This is said to be one of the topics Obama will discuss during his visit. A White House representative explained that they will look into sending fatter ambassadors to fill the embassy vacancies.

#20 ewv

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:14 AM


This just in: An area in the mideast is believed to have been found with no crazed arabs rioting in the streets. The reports are being carefully checked with GPS and other measures to determine if the explanation is that there are no streets there so that rioting there is only in the desert. Diplomats are studying the situation to determine an appropriate response. In the meantime your are urged to remain calm and not make decisions.


Update: Obama just apologized to this region and promised $10M in aid to build streets and provide American flags for burning. Obama has temporarily suspended campaigning for re-election to meet with the local tribal leader of the area. Obama has used this occasion to denounce capitalists for neglecting this area, and for not building their fair share. In the meantime, Obama has volunteered Wall St, with free parking in any local skyscraper, for any airplane used to get there. Jay-Z was re-assured that Obama will still make it for the fund raiser.

In related news; several reports have surfaced that the Americans killed and dragged through the streets were too thin and withered away too quickly while being dragged. This, said one onlooker, is a huge disappointment because he brought his kids to a riot and they were expecting a longer show; "They did not even have enough time to start drooling in excitement." This is said to be one of the topics Obama will discuss during his visit. A White House representative explained that they will look into sending fatter ambassadors to fill the embassy vacancies.


Queen Michelle won't like that, and neither will the rest of them with all those pork-burgers. The latest statement from the Obama campaign was: 'Bush did it'.

Meanwhile, the families of those who have been killed are not amused by any of it.

What a coincidence that three well-organized spontaneous 'protests' (as the attacks and murders have been called) began on 9/11 just after we watched the horrifying re-runs of innocent people jumping to their deaths out of the top floors of the burning and collapsing World Trade Center. But we are being told that the 'protests' were caused by an inept anti-Muzzl'em video released last July in California and watched by almost no one -- but translated into Arabic and heavily promoted in the mid-east by Muzzl'em fanatics starting about a week ago on Egyptian television

Just barely before the embassy attacks and murders this week the Obama administration issued at 6:17 AM on 9/11 [timeline] yet another apology for America, pandering to Muzzl'ems with this government denunciation of what it calls the "abuse" of free speech:

“The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims — as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. . . . Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others.”


Romney properly denounced the pandering, which had been widely reported just after the embassy attacks:

“I’m outraged by the attacks on American diplomatic missions in Libya and Egypt and by the death of an American consulate worker in Benghazi. It’s disgraceful that the Obama Administration’s first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.”


He added the next morning:

“It’s a terrible course for America to stand in apology for our values,” Romney said. “Apology for America’s values is never the right course.”


In fact, the Obama "sympathisizing" had begun only hours before the attacks, but few knew that. Even the Obama administration denied responsibility for it's own 9/11 pandering, claiming it didn't come from "Washington":

"An administration official tells ABC News that ‘no one in Washington approved that statement before it was released and it doesn’t reflect the views of the US government.'”


Now Obama and the left are claiming 'Romney did it', feigning indignation over political criticism:

“We are shocked that, at a time when the United States of America is confronting the tragic death of one of our diplomatic officers in Libya, Governor Romney would choose to launch a political attack.”

and

“There’s a broader lesson to be learned here: Governor Romney seems to have a tendency to shoot first and aim later."


We are now being told that Obama's actions and policies are not relevant to the election just as they think their wreckage of the economy is not relevant to the election. 'Bush did it.' 'Romney did it'. They are "shocked" that Obama would be held responsible for anything, and the media is helping them. Instead we are being told that what matters in an election for president of the United States is personal "likeability" and emotional "connections", established not through facts and objective identification and analysis of political principle and policy, but "stories" and the mantra: 'Bush did it'. From Sen. Dingy Harry and his imaginary friend: 'Romney hasn't paid any taxes in ten years'. From an Obama activist used in a campaign advertisement: 'Romney killed my wife with cancer'.

Four years ago, despite Obama's suppression of his own educational and ideological background and radical left agenda, some of it was released, including his relations with radical 'community organizers' and the likes of demagogue anti-American preacher Jeremiah Wright and unrepentent leftist terrorist Bill Ayers, and Obama's own stark promise to viros to bankrupt the coal industry (which he has tried to do). In the age of pragmatism and envy few cared. The man on the white horse promoting 'hope and change' while fanning personal envy won the election.

Have enough voters caught on? The polls are not promising, but Obama is the result, not the cause.




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