> Response To Charges Against THE FORUM

Stephen Speicher
post Nov 15 2006, 12:38 AM
Post #1


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It is time to set the record straight. Betsy and I are distressed by several charges made against us on Diana Hsieh's NoodleFood and other forums that we consider unwarranted and untrue, and extremely unjust.

Many members of THE FORUM, particularly those on both sides of the recent controversies, know firsthand how hard we work to keep the debates respectful, avoid flame wars, and keep the focus on facts and values. Yet some critics have asserted that our moderation of THE FORUM is unfair.

While most critics merely assert "unfair moderation," I know of only one who actually tried to provide any evidence. I deleted a post by Tom Miovas from THE FORUM. He posted it elsewhere and several critics have pointed to it as prima facie evidence of our "unfair moderation." Here is the missing context.

Long before THE FORUM, I had a friendly relationship with Tom Miovas for many years. We had a number of private discussions on several subjects and I even personally helped Tom get through a rather troubling time in his life. When Tom joined THE FORUM almost a year ago, one of the first posts he made was a rather long promotion of his philosophical essays on his website, replete with URL pointers to each of a whole host of categories. I deleted Tom's post and on December 1, 2005 in part by way of explanation, I wrote the following to him:

QUOTE(Stephen Speicher)
I do not want postings on THE FORUM promoting off-site intellectual content that I have no control over. So, thanks for the post, but I am returning it back to you. Feel free, however, to engage in actual discussion on threads in THE FORUM instead.

This was followed shortly after by another post, one having virtually nothing to do with the thread to which he posted, advertising Tom's framed art prints business. I deleted that post and on December 13, 2005, I wrote to Tom:

QUOTE(Stephen Speicher)
I deleted this post because it has nothing to do with the thread. If you want you can post the essence of this in the CAPITALIST CORNER, which would be more appropriate.

Tom responded to another post with a somewhat out-of-context essay, and on January 7, 2006 I wrote to Tom:

QUOTE
And, Tom, I don't mean to imply that you should not start a thread of your own. Just keep in mind that these should be posts, not essays.

And not much later, in January 20, 2006, I deleted another of Tom's posts and wrote to him:

QUOTE
I deleted this post. I discussed the issue of promoting your site with you before. Please do not post here again unless you have serious interest in discussion, rather than repeating your older essays and posts or advertising your site.

All in all I had to delete quite a few of Tom's posts.

Now, some ten months later, Tom tried to post something I found particularly offensive. The first version of his post had a disrespectful reference to Leonard Peikoff. I deleted the post and on October 27, 2006, I wrote the following to Tom:

QUOTE(Stephen Speicher)
Hi,

I deleted this post. Reference to "Objectivist Pope," whether in scare quotes or not, is offensive and not appropriate for THE FORUM. I stopped reading your post at that point, so if you have any other language or tone of that nature, make sure you remove and/or change it before re-posting.

Tom removed his "Objectivist Pope" remark and posted again, and I again deleted his post, writing to him on October 30, 2006:

QUOTE(Stephen Speicher)
I deleted this post. Among other things, you are putting words in someone else's mouth with your "making it all up" remark.

Tom, I'd rather you not post to THE FORUM again. Your major contact with THE FORUM has been to occasionally drop by and post something here that you posted elsewhere, squeezing it into some thread where it often barely applies. You have shown little intention of engaging, but instead wind up using THE FORUM as a drive-by depository for a few of your writings. I think you not posting here would serve both of our interests best.

My suggestion that Tom not post here was the culmination of the history I outlined above. And even then Tom could have responded to me with some sort of indication that he had heard and understood my concern -- a concern that I had communicated to him several times in the past -- and if he had convincingly communicated that he would change his approach, then in spite of his history on THE FORUM, and in deference to our past friendship, I would have agreed to yet another chance.

Instead, Tom took his rejected post to the other forum and asked people to judge us by it -- neglecting to provide the information and context that justified my action.

We find this sad, but even more sad are the unjust and unwarranted charges some of our other critics have made against us (see additional posts).


--------------------
Stephen
stephen@speicher.com

Ignorance is just a placeholder for knowledge.

Forums.4AynRandFans.com is a place that holds knowledge.
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Posts in this topic
- Stephen Speicher   Response To Charges Against THE FORUM   Nov 15 2006, 12:38 AM
- - Stephen Speicher   In response to Tom's Miovas' post on the o...   Nov 15 2006, 12:39 AM
|- - Bold Standard   QUOTE(disgruntled poster @ Nov 14 2006, 06...   Nov 15 2006, 07:26 AM
- - Betsy Speicher   Last week I got an e-mail from a (former) CyberNet...   Nov 15 2006, 12:42 AM
|- - HeroicLife   QUOTE(Betsy Speicher @ Nov 14 2006, 06:42...   Nov 15 2006, 09:54 PM
- - Paul's Here   Thank you both for starting this thread. I want t...   Nov 15 2006, 02:57 AM
- - RayK   I would like to second Paul's backing of the S...   Nov 15 2006, 03:28 AM
- - Thales   While I don't post nearly to the extent the Ra...   Nov 15 2006, 04:19 AM
- - Walrus   This is trully a great forum, especially due to th...   Nov 15 2006, 05:00 AM
- - Rose Lake   The main reason that I have always liked this Obje...   Nov 15 2006, 05:07 AM
- - Bryan Haydukewich   This is the best moderated forum I have ever parti...   Nov 15 2006, 05:11 AM
|- - Mercury   The value gained from THE FORUM is incalculable, a...   Nov 15 2006, 05:50 AM
- - JohnRgt   But a 5 minute SEARCH vindicates the FORUM. What ...   Nov 15 2006, 06:13 AM
- - Carlos E. Jordan   I have had a great many posts deleted as well, but...   Nov 15 2006, 08:52 AM
- - Ed from OC   I want to thank Stephen and Betsy for putting toge...   Nov 15 2006, 08:53 AM
- - B. Royce   The Speichers' deletions of several of my post...   Nov 15 2006, 05:44 PM
- - alann   This is by far the most enjoyable Objectivist site...   Nov 15 2006, 11:47 PM
- - Matt   Betsy & Stephen, Thank you. Keep up the good...   Nov 16 2006, 05:17 AM
- - Betsy Speicher   I recently received this e-mail: QUOTEI found the...   Nov 16 2006, 04:22 PM
- - Stephen Speicher   There is another aspect of the charges being made ...   Nov 16 2006, 06:29 PM
- - HeroicLife   A number of people have used my forum to express d...   Nov 16 2006, 08:34 PM
|- - Stephen Speicher   QUOTE(HeroicLife @ Nov 16 2006, 12:34 PM)...   Nov 16 2006, 09:06 PM
- - Michael Jenkinson   I find this to be the most enjoyable forum to be a...   Nov 17 2006, 03:13 AM
- - RickWilmes   I also want to express my support for THE FORUM. ...   Nov 24 2006, 05:02 PM
- - Free Capitalist   There are two separate issues here: allegations of...   Nov 27 2006, 02:13 AM
- - Betsy Speicher   On Harry Binswanger's List, Robert Mayhew trie...   Feb 2 2007, 04:50 PM
- - Stephen Speicher   Referencing Mayhew's attack of THE FORUM on HB...   Feb 2 2007, 04:56 PM
|- - Arnold   QUOTE(Stephen Speicher @ Feb 3 2007, 02:5...   Feb 3 2007, 12:56 AM
|- - Stephen Speicher   QUOTE(Arnold @ Feb 2 2007, 04:56 PM) 4828...   Feb 3 2007, 03:15 AM
|- - Paul's Here   QUOTE(Stephen Speicher @ Feb 2 2007, 10:1...   Feb 3 2007, 04:37 AM
|- - Vespasiano   QUOTE(Stephen Speicher @ Feb 2 2007, 10:1...   Feb 3 2007, 05:00 AM
|- - Ed from OC   QUOTE(Stephen Speicher @ Feb 2 2007, 07:1...   Feb 3 2007, 09:14 AM
|- - Paul's Here   QUOTE(Stephen Speicher @ Feb 2 2007, 10:1...   Feb 7 2007, 03:07 AM
|- - Stephen Speicher   QUOTE(Paul's Here @ Feb 6 2007, 07:07...   Feb 7 2007, 05:08 AM
- - Dan Cross   I think I've had one post deleted and it was c...   Feb 2 2007, 11:26 PM
- - piz   QUOTE(Stephen Speicher @ Feb 2 2007, 10:1...   Feb 3 2007, 06:43 PM
- - Paul's Here   Tore Boeckmann has posted a reply on Diana's N...   Feb 6 2007, 03:17 AM
|- - Carlos E. Jordan   QUOTE(Paul's Here @ Feb 5 2007, 09:17...   Feb 6 2007, 04:15 AM
||- - B. Royce   QUOTE(Carlos E. Jordan @ Feb 6 2007, 04:1...   Feb 6 2007, 04:52 AM
|- - Stephen Speicher   QUOTE(Paul's Here @ Feb 5 2007, 07:17...   Feb 6 2007, 04:23 AM
|- - Stephen Speicher   QUOTE(Stephen Speicher @ Feb 5 2007, 08:2...   Feb 6 2007, 05:09 AM
|- - Stephen Speicher   QUOTE(Stephen Speicher @ Feb 5 2007, 09:0...   Feb 7 2007, 02:24 AM
|- - Paul's Here   QUOTE(Stephen Speicher @ Feb 6 2007, 09:2...   Feb 7 2007, 02:43 AM
- - JRoberts   Stephen, You are truly an inspiration to me. You...   Feb 6 2007, 05:13 AM
|- - PhilO   I have to say that reading Diana Hsieh's smug ...   Feb 6 2007, 07:00 AM
|- - Carlos E. Jordan   QUOTE(PhilO @ Feb 6 2007, 01:00 AM) 48581...   Feb 6 2007, 07:54 AM
|- - Paul's Here   QUOTE(Carlos E. Jordan @ Feb 6 2007, 02:5...   Feb 6 2007, 12:55 PM
|- - Paul's Here   QUOTE(Paul's Here @ Feb 6 2007, 07:55...   Feb 6 2007, 01:08 PM
|- - B. Royce   QUOTE(Paul's Here @ Feb 6 2007, 01:08...   Feb 6 2007, 01:47 PM
|- - Paul's Here   QUOTE(B. Royce @ Feb 6 2007, 08:47 AM) 48...   Feb 6 2007, 03:10 PM
- - Ed from OC   I've tried to come up with a civil response to...   Feb 6 2007, 07:57 AM
|- - Ed from OC   QUOTE(Ed from OC @ Feb 5 2007, 11:57 PM) ...   Feb 6 2007, 08:04 AM
- - Thoyd Loki   That article is what is passing for "genuine ...   Feb 6 2007, 09:47 AM
- - Carlos E. Jordan   It really is amazing to see how the comments secti...   Feb 7 2007, 04:00 AM
|- - Ed from OC   QUOTE(Carlos E. Jordan @ Feb 6 2007, 08:0...   Feb 7 2007, 05:07 AM
- - oldsalt   Here I am, late to the party again. I had no idea...   Feb 7 2007, 12:27 PM
|- - Ed from OC   QUOTE(oldsalt @ Feb 7 2007, 04:27 AM) 486...   Feb 7 2007, 03:46 PM
||- - oldsalt   QUOTE(Ed from OC @ Feb 7 2007, 07:46 AM) ...   Feb 7 2007, 06:49 PM
|- - Vespasiano   QUOTE(oldsalt @ Feb 7 2007, 07:27 AM) 486...   Feb 7 2007, 10:30 PM
- - Paul's Here   I would like to comment on methodolgy, and offer j...   Feb 7 2007, 12:33 PM
|- - Paul's Here   QUOTE(Paul's Here @ Feb 7 2007, 07:33...   Feb 7 2007, 02:48 PM
- - Stephen Speicher   I'm so disgusted with the outrageous and unjus...   Feb 7 2007, 03:46 PM
- - Dean M. Sandin   I'd like to thank a friend and fellow member o...   Feb 7 2007, 06:55 PM
- - Thoyd Loki   I just took some time to carefully read over the t...   Feb 7 2007, 10:55 PM
- - Vespasiano   In light of both the denouncements which have been...   Feb 8 2007, 04:18 AM
|- - Scott A.   My only online connection to Objectivism has been ...   Feb 8 2007, 05:58 AM
|- - PhilO   When I see the kind of unfounded malicious slander...   Feb 8 2007, 06:55 AM
- - Paul's Here   I would be interested in Stephen's response to...   Feb 8 2007, 04:50 AM
|- - Stephen Speicher   QUOTE(Paul's Here @ Feb 7 2007, 08:50...   Feb 8 2007, 06:47 AM
- - Thales   I’ve honestly had a hard time with this, because I...   Feb 8 2007, 06:53 AM
- - Stephen Speicher   QUOTE(Paul's Here @ Feb 7 2007, 08:50...   Feb 8 2007, 06:53 AM
|- - Paul's Here   QUOTE(Stephen Speicher @ Feb 8 2007, 01:5...   Feb 8 2007, 12:54 PM
- - Stephen Speicher   A P.S.: I would also like to add thanks to Paul ...   Feb 8 2007, 06:55 AM
- - Michael Jenkinson   I don't understand all the fighting that goes ...   Feb 8 2007, 07:16 AM
|- - Vespasiano   QUOTE(Michael Jenkinson @ Feb 8 2007, 02...   Feb 8 2007, 09:19 PM
- - Matt Miklautsch   A general theme in this thread regarding the recen...   Feb 8 2007, 10:29 PM
|- - Paul's Here   QUOTE(Matt Miklautsch @ Feb 8 2007, 05:29...   Feb 9 2007, 01:27 AM
||- - Matt Miklautsch   "Can you cite sources for this?" Scroll...   Feb 9 2007, 01:45 AM
||- - Paul's Here   QUOTE(Matt Miklautsch @ Feb 8 2007, 08:45...   Feb 9 2007, 01:54 AM
|||- - Matt Miklautsch   QUOTE(Paul's Here @ Feb 8 2007, 08:54...   Feb 9 2007, 02:18 AM
|||- - Paul's Here   QUOTE(Matt Miklautsch @ Feb 8 2007, 09:18...   Feb 9 2007, 03:36 AM
|||- - Stephen Speicher   QUOTE(Matt Miklautsch @ Feb 8 2007, 06:18...   Feb 9 2007, 03:38 AM
||- - Paul's Here   QUOTE(Matt Miklautsch @ Feb 8 2007, 08:45...   Feb 9 2007, 04:03 AM
||- - Stephen Speicher   QUOTE(Paul's Here @ Feb 8 2007, 08:03...   Feb 9 2007, 04:57 AM
|- - Betsy Speicher   QUOTE(Matt Miklautsch @ Feb 8 2007, 02:29...   Feb 9 2007, 03:17 AM
- - jordanz   From http://www.dictionary.com Civil 1. Adhering t...   Feb 8 2007, 11:00 PM
- - Walrus   I don't understand why a forum must be moderat...   Feb 9 2007, 02:16 AM
|- - Matt Miklautsch   QUOTE(Walrus @ Feb 8 2007, 09:16 PM) 4878...   Feb 9 2007, 02:25 AM
|- - oldsalt   We here on the FORUM have been admonished that we ...   Feb 9 2007, 09:09 PM
|- - Vespasiano   QUOTE(oldsalt @ Feb 9 2007, 04:09 PM) 488...   Feb 9 2007, 10:30 PM
|- - Xyhm   Now there's a commenter on Noodlefood wonderin...   Feb 10 2007, 12:44 AM
|- - Xyhm   Hey, wait a minute. My post came out wrong for som...   Feb 10 2007, 12:52 AM
|- - Paul's Here   QUOTE(Xyhm @ Feb 9 2007, 07:44 PM) 48843 ...   Feb 10 2007, 01:02 AM
- - Matt Miklautsch   Sorry, the last sentence should include ..on the T...   Feb 9 2007, 02:20 AM
- - Walrus   Perhaps I am misinterpreting what you wrote, but t...   Feb 9 2007, 03:06 AM
- - jdperren   "Like Ayn Rand, Stephen and I are only concer...   Feb 9 2007, 03:37 AM
- - Dan Cross   The fact of the matter is that Stephen pointed out...   Feb 9 2007, 06:18 AM
- - Paul's Here   And the smears continue from Diana. First rationa...   Feb 10 2007, 12:40 AM
- - oldsalt   I would suggest that we leave these people to what...   Feb 10 2007, 01:35 AM
- - Arnold   I posted this on Noodle Food: "Putting asid...   Feb 10 2007, 02:00 AM
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