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Nov 20 2006, 05:04 AM
Post
#201
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![]() Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 7,870 Joined: 27-January 05 From: Thousand Oaks, California Member No.: 1 |
==========NOTE FROM THE MODERATOR========== I placed this thread in limbo when Rob Tracinski informed me that he had not given permission to a blogger to republish Rob's essays. Rob has now made those essays available on his own website, so I am now resurrecting this thread. The improper pointers are in strikeout and the proper ones I have inserted within brackets, with wording in blue. When reading this thread please make note of Rob Tracinski's "Author's Note" which prefaces the web version of his essays. To his credit Rob has reworded and clarified some of the more contentious passages, so a number of objections voiced in the following posts no longer apply. Hopefully we can all now better focus on the positive aspects of his essays. I also note that Rob has made some non-essential editing changes throughout. So, below is my original post, and all of the follow-up posts, and the thread is open for discussion again. ========END NOTE FROM THE MODERATOR========= I must confess to not having read Rob Tracinski's writings for some time. Nothing personal involved, and not a judgment of Rob, but simply that my main interests lie in areas different from his. But, after reading some recent smears and personal attacks made against him in comments on Diana Hsieh's Noodlefood blog and other forums, I decided to take the time and read the recent series of essays referred to by his attackers. It is my understanding that the first three parts of an intended six-part series have been made available for general viewing with Rob's permission. "What Went Right?" I have now read this material and though I think there are some important identifications made in these pieces, my overarching concern is with what may be misunderstandings or confusions about Objectivism on Rob's part (or, at least, views presented that are in conflict with my own understanding of the philosophy). I do not here want to discuss the positive aspects of these pieces, nor do I want to dissect the negative ones. I just want to highlight what is perhaps the single most egregious point of my disagreement. (Note that the formatting in the reproduced copies of Rob's essays is not complete, and I have adjusted those in what follows): QUOTE(Rob Tracinski) Philosophy does have an indispensable role to play. It provides a crucial context for valid work in specialized fields, a context that provides the specialist with guidance on his basic method and with basic principles about the nature of the world and the nature of man. But philosophy does not and cannot dictate the content of a specialized field. A specialist cannot produce knowledge within his own field simply by "reading off" results from the assumptions taught to him by philosophers. Unfortunately, that has been an implication of the standard Objectivist interpretation of the role of ideas in history. Here, for example, is how Leonard Peikoff describes it in his epilogue to Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand. QUOTE(OPAR @ p. 452) Philosophy is not the only cause of the course of the centuries. It is the ultimate cause, the cause of all the other causes.... The books of philosophers are the beginning. Step by step, the books turn into motives, passions, statues, politicians, and headlines. This is a kind of trickle-down theory of intellectual influence, in which the philosopher is the originator and only source of the ideas that drive the course of history, while the public intellectuals and the men in the specialized sciences are mere transmitters and translators of those ideas. Even without the material elided from the Peikoff quote, the quote itself does not imply what Rob has claimed, namely that philosophy dictates the content of a specialized field, or that a specialist in a field produces knowledge simply by "reading off" results from the assumptions taught to him by philosophers. I am at a loss to explain how Rob can extract his conclusion from the quoted material provided. It may very well be that some Objectivists in some instances have done just what Rob claims -- I myself have seen some similarities in how some Objectivists deal with science -- but the Peikoff quote is not illustrative of this, nor do I think that Objectivism per se can validly be characterized as such. In my view, I do not think that Rob serves the purpose of his critque -- to the extent that his critque makes valid points -- by examples such as these. To be fair, Rob does lend some perspective to his first three essays in the "Note" that I referenced above, where he states, in what seems to be a very direct and honest manner, the sense in which some of what he presents is still being developed in his own mind. And, he does promise evidence in future essays to back up his claims. Personally, I will hold off final judgment until Rob presents his full case, but I am rather disappointed with, and strongly disagree with, the evidence that has so far been presented. These are claims of import and substance, and they demand nothing less than completely accurate and precise evidence in support, which, so far, in my view, is lacking in these essays. -------------------- Stephen
stephen@speicher.com Ignorance is just a placeholder for knowledge. Forums.4AynRandFans.com is a place that holds knowledge. |
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Stephen Speicher Rob Tracinski on "What Went Right?" Nov 20 2006, 05:04 AM
Rose Lake QUOTE(Betsy Speicher @ Jan 24 2007, 03:52... Jan 24 2007, 10:42 PM
Betsy Speicher QUOTE(Rose Lake @ Jan 24 2007, 02:42 PM) ... Jan 25 2007, 02:29 AM
Vespasiano I’m confused . . . or, rather, I'm having the ... Jan 24 2007, 10:59 PM
Stephen Speicher QUOTE(Vespasiano @ Jan 24 2007, 02:59 PM)... Jan 25 2007, 01:41 AM
Vespasiano QUOTE(Stephen Speicher @ Jan 24 2007, 08... Jan 25 2007, 04:27 AM
Rose Lake QUOTE(Betsy Speicher @ Jan 24 2007, 08:29... Jan 25 2007, 05:54 AM
PhilosophyOfHistory-101 Q&A on The Summit and The Foundation by Robert... Jan 25 2007, 10:15 PM
Vespasiano QUOTE(PhilosophyOfHistory-101 @ Jan 25 2... Jan 25 2007, 11:45 PM
PhilosophyOfHistory-101 Q&A on The Summit and The Foundation by Robert... Jan 27 2007, 12:32 AM
PhilosophyOfHistory-101 Q&A on The Summit and The Foundation by Robert... Jan 27 2007, 12:51 AM
Betsy Speicher On Harry Binswanger's List, Robert Mayhew resp... Jan 27 2007, 06:50 PM
Paul's Here QUOTE(Betsy Speicher @ Jan 27 2007, 01:50... Jan 27 2007, 07:18 PM
oldsalt QUOTE(Betsy Speicher @ Jan 27 2007, 10:50... Jan 27 2007, 11:24 PM
Arnold QUOTE(Betsy Speicher @ Jan 28 2007, 04:50... Jan 28 2007, 03:46 AM
Vespasiano QUOTE(Betsy Speicher @ Jan 27 2007, 01:50... Jan 29 2007, 03:44 AM
Michelle F. Cohen QUOTEQUOTE(Robert Mayhew @ HBL, 1/27/07)
Unfortuna... Jan 27 2007, 11:02 PM
jdperren So, all of a sudden the subject requires specializ... Jan 28 2007, 12:57 AM
PhilosophyOfHistory-101 Q&A on The Summit and The Foundation by Robert... Jan 28 2007, 06:00 PM
RickWilmes QUOTE(PhilosophyOfHistory-101 @ Jan 28 2... Jan 29 2007, 05:50 AM

Stephen Speicher QUOTE(RickWilmes @ Jan 28 2007, 09:50 PM)... Jan 29 2007, 06:02 AM
RickWilmes QUOTE(PhilosophyOfHistory-101 @ Jan 28 2... Jan 29 2007, 06:25 AM
Stephen Speicher In this post and in this post there are broken lin... Jan 28 2007, 08:12 PM
PhilosophyOfHistory-101 I agree that Tracinski's use of the concept im... Jan 29 2007, 11:35 PM
RickWilmes QUOTE(PhilosophyOfHistory-101 @ Jan 29 2... Jan 29 2007, 11:58 PM
PhilosophyOfHistory-101 QUOTE(RickWilmes @ Jan 29 2007, 06:58 PM)... Feb 1 2007, 07:23 PM
Stephen Speicher In previous posts (here, here, and here) I have po... Jan 30 2007, 11:58 PM
PhilosophyOfHistory-101 Q&A on The Summit and the Foundation by Robert... Jan 31 2007, 01:32 AM
jdperren Presently, I want to add only this to the conversa... Feb 1 2007, 01:26 AM
Stephen Speicher QUOTE(jdperren @ Jan 31 2007, 05:26 PM) 4... Feb 1 2007, 04:35 AM
Robert Tracinski I want to extend my thanks to everyone at the Foru... Feb 14 2007, 03:34 AM
Stephen Speicher QUOTE(Robert Tracinski @ Feb 13 2007, 07... Feb 14 2007, 05:04 AM
Free Capitalist QUOTE(Robert Tracinski @ Feb 13 2007, 10... Feb 15 2007, 08:12 PM
RickWilmes QUOTE(Robert Tracinski @ Feb 13 2007, 07... Feb 16 2007, 01:05 AM
Jack Wakeland QUOTE(RickWilmes @ Feb 15 2007, 07:05 PM)... Feb 20 2007, 04:34 AM
Rose Lake Does this mean that this thread is open again? (Th... Feb 14 2007, 04:48 AM
Stephen Speicher QUOTE(Rose Lake @ Feb 13 2007, 08:48 PM) ... Feb 14 2007, 05:07 AM
Arnold QUOTE(Stephen Speicher @ Feb 14 2007, 03... Feb 14 2007, 12:54 PM
Rose Lake Okay - open for business. Thanks Robert Tracinski,... Feb 14 2007, 04:51 AM
oldsalt I, too, thank Mr. Tracinski for coming to the FORU... Feb 14 2007, 05:05 AM
oldsalt This is a bit OT, but....
I want to thank Mr. Tra... Feb 15 2007, 05:22 AM
Rose Lake These statements struck me particularly:
QUOTE(Ro... Feb 16 2007, 06:01 AM
Stephen Speicher QUOTE(Rose Lake @ Feb 15 2007, 10:01 PM) ... Feb 16 2007, 06:37 AM
Rose Lake QUOTE(Stephen Speicher @ Feb 16 2007, 12... Feb 16 2007, 06:49 AM
Stephen Speicher QUOTE(Rose Lake @ Feb 15 2007, 10:49 PM) ... Feb 16 2007, 07:11 AM
Rose Lake QUOTE(Stephen Speicher @ Feb 16 2007, 01... Feb 16 2007, 07:22 AM
Rose Lake This article will probably interest those interest... Feb 21 2007, 04:26 AM
Rose Lake I hope I was not misleading anyone by having calle... Feb 21 2007, 04:59 AM
RickWilmes I think the following website is of importance whe... Feb 21 2007, 05:25 AM
Jack Wakeland Rick,
Military History Quarterly's Rod Pascha... Feb 21 2007, 09:24 PM
bborg Although the thread is still open, I realize I... Jun 14 2007, 03:07 AM
Betsy Speicher bborg makes many excellent points with which I agr... Jun 14 2007, 03:21 PM

bborg QUOTE(Betsy Speicher @ Jun 14 2007, 11:21... Jun 14 2007, 05:22 PM

PhilO QUOTE(bborg @ Jun 14 2007, 01:22 PM) 5553... Jun 14 2007, 07:08 PM


Paul's Here QUOTE(PhilO @ Jun 14 2007, 03:08 PM) 5553... Jun 14 2007, 07:44 PM


bborg QUOTE(PhilO @ Jun 14 2007, 03:08 PM) 5553... Jun 14 2007, 08:15 PM



bborg In the last sentence I should have said "addi... Jun 14 2007, 10:05 PM



PhilO QUOTE(bborg @ Jun 14 2007, 04:15 PM) 5553... Jun 14 2007, 11:49 PM



bborg QUOTE(PhilO @ Jun 14 2007, 07:49 PM) 5554... Jun 15 2007, 01:18 PM



PhilO QUOTE(bborg @ Jun 15 2007, 09:18 AM) 5556... Jun 15 2007, 08:11 PM


Jay P QUOTE(PhilO @ Jun 14 2007, 12:08 PM) 5553... Jun 15 2007, 04:46 AM


Ed from OC QUOTE(PhilO @ Jun 14 2007, 12:08 PM) 5553... Jun 15 2007, 06:22 AM


PhilO As far as the loss of knowledge goes, I had the id... Jun 15 2007, 08:27 PM

Betsy Speicher QUOTE(Betsy Speicher @ Jun 14 2007, 11:21... Jun 15 2007, 02:54 AM


bborg QUOTE(Betsy Speicher @ Jun 14 2007, 10:54... Jun 15 2007, 03:18 AM

Betsy Speicher QUOTE(bborg @ Jun 14 2007, 10:22 AM) 5553... Jun 15 2007, 03:13 AM


bborg QUOTE(Betsy Speicher @ Jun 14 2007, 11:13... Jun 15 2007, 03:30 AM

Betsy Speicher QUOTE(bborg @ Jun 14 2007, 10:22 AM) 5553... Jun 15 2007, 03:25 AM
Arnold QUOTE(bborg @ Jun 14 2007, 01:07 PM) 5550... Jun 14 2007, 11:20 PM

bborg QUOTE(Arnold @ Jun 14 2007, 07:20 PM) 555... Jun 15 2007, 03:04 AM

Betsy Speicher QUOTE(bborg @ Jun 14 2007, 08:04 PM) 5555... Jun 15 2007, 03:46 AM

bborg QUOTE(Betsy Speicher @ Jun 14 2007, 11:46... Jun 15 2007, 04:20 AM

bborg I need to correct one of my statements in post 273... Jun 15 2007, 04:52 AM

Betsy Speicher QUOTE(bborg @ Jun 14 2007, 09:20 PM) 5555... Jun 15 2007, 02:43 PM

bborg QUOTE(Betsy Speicher @ Jun 15 2007, 10:43... Jun 15 2007, 03:22 PM

Betsy Speicher QUOTE(bborg @ Jun 15 2007, 08:22 AM) 5557... Jun 15 2007, 05:01 PM

bborg QUOTE(Betsy Speicher @ Jun 15 2007, 01:01... Jun 15 2007, 05:27 PM

Arnold QUOTE(bborg @ Jun 16 2007, 03:27 AM) 5558... Jun 16 2007, 02:20 AM

Matt QUOTE(bborg @ Jun 15 2007, 11:27 AM) QUOT... Jun 17 2007, 03:13 AM

bborg QUOTE(Matt @ Jun 16 2007, 11:13 PM) In ot... Jun 17 2007, 01:43 PM

Arnold QUOTE(bborg @ Jun 17 2007, 11:43 PM) From... Jun 18 2007, 12:24 AM

alann QUOTE(Arnold @ Jun 17 2007, 05:24 PM) As ... Jun 18 2007, 12:56 AM

bborg QUOTE(Arnold @ Jun 17 2007, 08:24 PM) If ... Jun 18 2007, 11:13 AM

Arnold QUOTE(bborg @ Jun 18 2007, 09:13 PM) I th... Jun 18 2007, 01:46 PM
Jay P QUOTE(bborg @ Jun 13 2007, 08:07 PM) 5550... Jun 15 2007, 03:40 AM
Ed from OC Another thought to add to my prior post:
The coll... Jun 15 2007, 06:33 AM![]() ![]() |
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