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#81 Ifat Glassman

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 11:48 PM

To give one example: ODE. Ordinary Differential Equations. The entire course was comprised of writing a type of problem, and presenting how to solve it. Then for homework, you had a bunch of problems and you needed to become an expert in applying the right method from your notebook to solve it.
Where did this ODE come from? Why is it needed for an engineer? What does it correspond to in reality? None of these questions were answered. Instead you are required to solve more and more problems until you automatize the different methods. I bet you anything that if I pull an ODE (out of my <let's say notebook, because the word I have in mind is not as nice>) and let you solve it now, you will not remember the method. The memorization of the method lasted just enough for the test. So what's the use of it?

Did you have the same reaction to evaluating integrals in elementary calculus, or was there enough explanation of how and why they arise in different ways so you understood that you were learning methods for something generally important and which is applicable regardless of the different physical meanings possible in different circumstances?

The entire first year was a lot of math courses, and it did not come with any explanations for how this is important for my profession nor was the math connected to reality (there was relatively little application to real problems). However, at that point I was used to having math presented to me in this way - as a mathematical abstraction in a mathematical world. I like math, I always did, and so as long as it presented enough challenge from the good kind, I did not complain. It wasn't until ODE, and PDE that I started to resent what was asked of me. But there were some elements of resentment in earlier courses as well. Whenever I felt that the emphasis was about mimicking a method and not about understanding it, I got annoyed. However, my feelings are not the point.

Even if they did explain how ODE is generally important in many fields, it's not enough. They should start with real situations and show how they translate to an equation. Not just give examples, but let students practice But then, after they did that, they should not demand that we memorize the methods to solve all the different problems.

Did your DE course say anything about how to tell when a solution exists and if so if it is unique?

They did. But I barely remember any of it. Why would I care if a solution is unique when I have no idea how such a thing is of any importance to the real world or to my profession? (to describe my perspective from back then)

Did the course not give examples of how they arise and are a common form of many laws in physics and engineering?

No, they did not. I picked up a book on the subject and read about real scientific problems (like the heat equation).

Didn't other courses begin to explain that, or did they all come too late after you already had the DE course? Had you seen, for example, how the same equation for an elementary harmonic oscillator arises in different physical contexts like springs and masses or electric circuits?

Yes, I've seen it so much the damn equation is spilling from my ears :) . And I have no idea how second degree circuits or oscillating mechanical systems are of any importance to my profession.

Did you have a follow-up course in partial differential equations where you saw formulations of vibrating strings and drum heads, or heat conduction before learning how to solve the common forms of PDEs?

Those courses came afterwards. I had one good course (not perfect though, but still pretty good) about transport phenomena (like heat, mass). That course actually had some originality in the problems that needed to be solved, and connection to reality. It didn't teach us how to model reality (no course did), but it did teach us that after reality has been modeled by someone, how to deal with the problem.


Didn't the methods you learned for solving DEs come up again in engineering courses where you learned what they were for in different specific contexts, or did the whole subject drop off the cliff as soon as the DE course was over?

From all the many different DE problems, I think on the large, only one type of problem was used later on.

All these questions relate to how well your courses were integrated into a curriculum and how it and the individual courses observed the proper hierarchy of knowledge in what you were learning.

There is more that needs to be taken under account when judging if the course was taught well. Mathematics is generalization of many different concretes in reality. So before they start teaching us the math, the first need to demonstrate how it is an abstraction. (This is especially true for kids. Thinking back to my high school education and earlier years, I think the whole approach that they used was wrong, because they taught math as an abstraction living in a bubble. For years I had no idea that 'x' and 'y' have anything to do with reality. I had no idea that they are an abstraction. ) To get back to what else needs to be taken under account - in my DE course they required we memorize and automatize the methods of solving different problems. This was completely useless. An engineer does not need to solve many DEs in a short amount of time. All he needs to know is how to solve an ODE. For that he just needs to look at his notebook/google. Memorization is useless. Second - if an engineer will ever come across a differential equation, it will not be handed down to him as an equation. He needs to be trained in translating the system he is working on to an equation. We got almost zero practice with that.

OK, too spent to continue. But I don't think I can gather enough energy to make this post more coherent, because digging back to my DE course, frankly makes me very agitated :angry2: . So I'm just going to post what I have, I hope it is coherent enough.
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#82 realitycheck44

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 06:43 PM

Wanted to bump this thread from a while ago, since I had received a significant amount of help and support from the member of this board. Decided it was time to check in, and I wanted to let you all know my progress. Not trying to brag, but I figured you'd want to know:

I graduated from Webb last June (just over a year ago) with decent (...okay, good) grades. Senior year was tough. I completed a capstone ship design project (individually designed an entire ship from scratch in a 3-D modelling program) and wrote a thesis. My thesis was almost entirely outside the scope of the curriculum and required learning a few textbooks worth of new material to which I hadn't any exposure, but it's what I wanted to do and nothing was going to stop me. I worked like a slave, 20 hours a day, 7 days a week for almost a year, taking one day off a month (plus two weeks at Christmas). I was in the library when everyone else went to bed and back again before they woke up. It was difficult, but what a difference it makes when it's your idea. The thesis won a prize by the American Bureau of Shipping.

I decided to work as an engineer for a bit before going back to graduate school. This winter, I'll apply to MIT, Johns Hopkins, and NTNU (Norwegian Institute of Technology), as well as UW and UMich as "safety schools." I play to study underwater robotics.

Still haven't conquered my test-taking issues, but I'm working on it!
"The Priest hated him, for the Viking looked at heaven only when he bent for a drink over a mountain brook, and there, overshadowing the sky, he saw his own picture.
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#83 JohnRgt

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 07:22 PM

Wanted to bump this thread from a while ago, since I had received a significant amount of help and support from the member of this board. Decided it was time to check in, and I wanted to let you all know my progress. Not trying to brag, but I figured you'd want to know:

I graduated from Webb last June (just over a year ago) with decent (...okay, good) grades. Senior year was tough. I completed a capstone ship design project (individually designed an entire ship from scratch in a 3-D modelling program) and wrote a thesis. My thesis was almost entirely outside the scope of the curriculum and required learning a few textbooks worth of new material to which I hadn't any exposure, but it's what I wanted to do and nothing was going to stop me. I worked like a slave, 20 hours a day, 7 days a week for almost a year, taking one day off a month (plus two weeks at Christmas). I was in the library when everyone else went to bed and back again before they woke up. It was difficult, but what a difference it makes when it's your idea. The thesis won a prize by the American Bureau of Shipping.

I decided to work as an engineer for a bit before going back to graduate school. This winter, I'll apply to MIT, Johns Hopkins, and NTNU (Norwegian Institute of Technology), as well as UW and UMich as "safety schools." I play to study underwater robotics.

Still haven't conquered my test-taking issues, but I'm working on it!


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#84 Betsy Speicher

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 03:50 PM

Congratulations!

Your dedication to your personal goals is exactly the same motivation Stephen had and it is the secret to a happy and successful life. You're off to a great start.

P.S. Life is an open book test.
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Betsy's Law #2 - In the long run you get the kind of friends -- and the kind of enemies -- you deserve.

#85 A=A

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 03:11 PM

Wanted to bump this thread from a while ago, since I had received a significant amount of help and support from the member of this board. Decided it was time to check in, and I wanted to let you all know my progress. Not trying to brag, but I figured you'd want to know:

I graduated from Webb last June (just over a year ago) with decent (...okay, good) grades. Senior year was tough. I completed a capstone ship design project (individually designed an entire ship from scratch in a 3-D modelling program) and wrote a thesis. My thesis was almost entirely outside the scope of the curriculum and required learning a few textbooks worth of new material to which I hadn't any exposure, but it's what I wanted to do and nothing was going to stop me. I worked like a slave, 20 hours a day, 7 days a week for almost a year, taking one day off a month (plus two weeks at Christmas). I was in the library when everyone else went to bed and back again before they woke up. It was difficult, but what a difference it makes when it's your idea. The thesis won a prize by the American Bureau of Shipping.

I decided to work as an engineer for a bit before going back to graduate school. This winter, I'll apply to MIT, Johns Hopkins, and NTNU (Norwegian Institute of Technology), as well as UW and UMich as "safety schools." I play to study underwater robotics.

Still haven't conquered my test-taking issues, but I'm working on it!


rc,

Kudos on your achievments.

I've spent some time on some pretty interesting ships and off-shore structures during the past 35 years. Have also had some involvement in commercial underwater work. So I'd be interested in hearing more about the ship you designed and what you plan on doing "work" wise. If you want I can give you a suggestion for a company in Holland that's involved in the Mairne Industry to send your CV to.

A=A




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